War Hammers?

David · 18th March 2011, 11:15 PM

Can someone put forth some average weights for the heads of traditional late medieval war hammers. Any real examples to post? Thanks.

A Senefelder · 19th March 2011, 03:23 AM

I don't own a warhammer but did have this until late last year ( darn economy ) http://www.merctailor.com/originals.php?original_pk=97 . We've forged up a few over the years just expirementing and weights came in around 1 pound to 1.25 pounds. The axe above weight in at a bit over three pounds.

David · 19th March 2011, 03:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Senefelder

I don't own a warhammer but did have this until late last year ( darn economy ) http://www.merctailor.com/originals.php?original_pk=97 . We've forged up a few over the years just expirementing and weights came in around 1 pound to 1.25 pounds. The axe above weight in at a bit over three pounds.

I'm more interested in the hammers than axes. I have a friend who is claiming that "real" war hammers have heads that weigh in at almost 10 lbs. and that seems way out of range to me.

Gavin Nugent · 19th March 2011, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

I'm more interested in the hammers than axes. I have a friend who is claiming that "real" war hammers have heads that weigh in at almost 10 lbs. and that seems way out of range to me.

Not beyond the realms of possability at 10lbs....I find for me though 7lb on a long shaft is more than enough weight to swing and has a great effect on objects struck.

Gav$iconid=2

fernando · 19th March 2011, 03:21 PM

There must be a wide choice of these things, with a wide range of weights.
According to my expert contact, infantry ones may weigh around 3 lbs and cavalry (long shaft) ones around 7 lbs, as would be the case of this unique Portuguese XV century Crow Beak.

.

Matchlock · 19th March 2011, 04:16 PM

Hi David,

In Germany and Switzerland they were called Fuss-Streithammer (war hammer for foot soldiers).

I attach two late 15th c. samples from the collections of the German Historic Museum Berlin (b/w) and another fine late 15th c. item retaining its warding off disc (Brechscheibe) - I could not find the correct English term. Anyone ready to add it?

Unfortunately their weights are unrecorded.

The hafts are either of oak or ash.

Best,
Michael

David · 19th March 2011, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

There must be a wide choice of these things, with a wide range of weights.
According to my expert contact, infantry ones may weigh around 3 lbs and cavalry (long shaft) ones around 7 lbs, as would be the case of this unique Portuguese XV century Crow Beak.

.

Nando, is that weight for the entire weapon or just the head?

fernando · 19th March 2011, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Nando, is that weight for the entire weapon or just the head?

For the entire thing.

Matchlock · 19th March 2011, 08:17 PM

Hi 'Nando,

Do you happen to know (or are able to find out) the English term for that fencing off disc (Brechscheibe)?

It's also found on the awlpike type (Ahlspiess).

My favorite online dictionary dict proved to fail here.

Best,
Michl

fernando · 19th March 2011, 08:45 PM

Say Michl,
What makes you think i am a living weapons enciclopedia like Herr Trömner ?

George Snook, in his little publication THE HALBERD, refers to these devices mounted in awlpikes (ahlspiesse) simply as circular hand guards.
However John Waldman, in his work HAFTED WEAPONS IN MEDIEVAL AND RENAISSANCE EUROPE, calls them roundel guards.
Does this sound like what you had in mind?

Matchlock · 19th March 2011, 09:47 PM

Hi, Sir 'Nando,

Living weapons encyclopedia - me??!

Thank you so much from the bottom of my heart! Well, I'm certainly not, my dear friend, maybe apart from whatever may concern a few early firearms relics.

Roundel guard just seems perfect to a bloody foreigner like me.

I knew you were the greatest arms historian around anyway!

Thanks a lot,
and a very good night to a warm Portugal (and please cherish your charming cats!) from a darn cold and windy Bavaria (minus 8 degrees centigrade),
Mich

fernando · 19th March 2011, 10:47 PM

Only two things, Michl:
1 - My 'three and half cats' send their greetings to you

.
2 - You should fix your thermometer; Abensberg is not so far from my hometown and we are presently with 12 centigrade ... plus

Matchlock · 19th March 2011, 11:51 PM

Just one thing, 'Nando:

If it's all that easy and near - please set off to come and see me and my collection, friend! Do your three and three quarter cats cats like driving?

I'd love to snuggle up with your lovely smooth purring furries anyway!!!

After all, Alexander, our St. Petersburg friend, was here in my collection in Septemper - and the two of us have been all that much nearer ever since

Was this sentence anything nearing correct English?

)

As soon as you're here everything will be free:literally hundreds of liters of Bavarian dark beer, roast pork etc...

Now ain't that enticing?!

P.S. I heavily kicked my lousy friend's ass once more to make him look for your fuse ...

Good night,
Michl

fernando · 20th March 2011, 04:54 PM

Thanks for the invitation, Michl

Pity the whole family (wife and cats) don't like car riding

.
But some day, who knows ... a low cost flight

.
I appreciate you keeping the pressure on your friend with the fuse; i am dying for that.

Matchlock · 20th March 2011, 07:30 PM

I know you're dying to finally get that fuse. I'll hang on kicking that guy's a.., I promise!

And: a low cost flight to Bavaria would be a nice idea - watch out for it!

Best,
m

Carl M · 24th March 2011, 09:13 AM

Quote:

I have a friend who is claiming that "real" war hammers have heads that weigh in at almost 10 lbs. and that seems way out of range to me.

David,

Your friend is confused with fantasy warhammers. The head of a medieval or Renaissance warhammer is well less than a couple of pounds. A ten pound head on a warhammer would be the same as a sledgehammer that you would buy at Home Depot. Great for driving stationary spikes, horrible for combat.

Tell your friend that fyunctionality and physics are at play here. One can do deadly damage with more speed and accuracy with a standard carpenter's hammer against a moving oponent than they can trying to weild a ten lb sledge hammer.

fernando · 24th March 2011, 04:16 PM

Hi Carl M
Have you already handled a war hammer ... short or/and long shafted?

Rick · 24th March 2011, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl M

David,

Your friend is confused with fantasy warhammers. The head of a medieval or Renaissance warhammer is well less than a couple of pounds. A ten pound head on a warhammer would be the same as a sledgehammer that you would buy at Home Depot. Great for driving stationary spikes, horrible for combat.

Tell your friend that fyunctionality and physics are at play here. One can do deadly damage with more speed and accuracy with a standard carpenter's hammer against a moving oponent than they can trying to weild a ten lb sledge hammer.

Having swung a hammer for most of my years in construction I can tell you that a 32 ounce framing hammer given a longer handle would be quite enough to do serious damage to an armored opponent .

A picture of 'Old Faithful' .

Carl M · 24th March 2011, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

Hi Carl M
Have you already handled a war hammer ... short or/and long shafted?

Hi Fernando,

As a collector, I have handled countless repros and numerous originals, both short and long hafted.

Quote:

Having swung a hammer for most of my years in construction I can tell you that a 32 ounce framing hammer given a longer handle would be quite enough to do serious damage to an armored opponent .

A picture of 'Old Faithful' .

Rick,

Haha! Definitely. Put a spike on the back and four raised points on the square head in the front and you will do even more! It is amazing how much force these can generate in the hands of someone who is used to swinging them. Add the fact that soldier carrying it has significant practice with it and you have a very dangerous individual.

Rick · 25th March 2011, 02:23 AM

That hammer saved me from sliding off an unshingled frosty roof some 2 decades ago .

I turned it around and drove the claw through the half inch plywood to hang on .
It saved me from many broken bones, or worse .
Good old hammer ......

18th March 2011, 11:15 PM	#1
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,027	War Hammers? Can someone put forth some average weights for the heads of traditional late medieval war hammers. Any real examples to post? Thanks.

19th March 2011, 03:21 PM	#5
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,642	There must be a wide choice of these things, with a wide range of weights. According to my expert contact, infantry ones may weigh around 3 lbs and cavalry (long shaft) ones around 7 lbs, as would be the case of this unique Portuguese XV century Crow Beak. . Attached Images

19th March 2011, 04:16 PM	#6
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi David, In Germany and Switzerland they were called Fuss-Streithammer (war hammer for foot soldiers). I attach two late 15th c. samples from the collections of the German Historic Museum Berlin (b/w) and another fine late 15th c. item retaining its warding off disc (Brechscheibe) - I could not find the correct English term. Anyone ready to add it? Unfortunately their weights are unrecorded. The hafts are either of oak or ash. Best, Michael Attached Images

19th March 2011, 09:47 PM	#11
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi, Sir 'Nando, Living weapons encyclopedia - me??! Thank you so much from the bottom of my heart! Well, I'm certainly not, my dear friend, maybe apart from whatever may concern a few early firearms relics. Roundel guard just seems perfect to a bloody foreigner like me. I knew you were the greatest arms historian around anyway! Thanks a lot, and a very good night to a warm Portugal (and please cherish your charming cats!) from a darn cold and windy Bavaria (minus 8 degrees centigrade), Mich Last edited by Matchlock; 19th March 2011 at 10:17 PM.

19th March 2011, 11:51 PM	#13
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Just one thing, 'Nando: If it's all that easy and near - please set off to come and see me and my collection, friend! Do your three and three quarter cats cats like driving? I'd love to snuggle up with your lovely smooth purring furries anyway!!! After all, Alexander, our St. Petersburg friend, was here in my collection in Septemper - and the two of us have been all that much nearer ever since Was this sentence anything nearing correct English? ) As soon as you're here everything will be free:literally hundreds of liters of Bavarian dark beer, roast pork etc... Now ain't that enticing?! P.S. I heavily kicked my lousy friend's ass once more to make him look for your fuse ... Good night, Michl Last edited by Matchlock; 20th March 2011 at 07:30 PM.

19th March 2011, 03:23 AM	#2
A Senefelder Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 214	I don't own a warhammer but did have this until late last year ( darn economy ) http://www.merctailor.com/originals.php?original_pk=97 . We've forged up a few over the years just expirementing and weights came in around 1 pound to 1.25 pounds. The axe above weight in at a bit over three pounds.

19th March 2011, 08:17 PM	#9
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi 'Nando, Do you happen to know (or are able to find out) the English term for that fencing off disc (Brechscheibe)? It's also found on the awlpike type (Ahlspiess). My favorite online dictionary dict proved to fail here. Best, Michl

19th March 2011, 08:45 PM	#10
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,642	Say Michl, What makes you think i am a living weapons enciclopedia like Herr Trömner ? George Snook, in his little publication THE HALBERD, refers to these devices mounted in awlpikes (ahlspiesse) simply as circular hand guards. However John Waldman, in his work HAFTED WEAPONS IN MEDIEVAL AND RENAISSANCE EUROPE, calls them roundel guards. Does this sound like what you had in mind?

19th March 2011, 10:47 PM	#12
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,642	Only two things, Michl: 1 - My 'three and half cats' send their greetings to you . 2 - You should fix your thermometer; Abensberg is not so far from my hometown and we are presently with 12 centigrade ... plus

20th March 2011, 04:54 PM	#14
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,642	Thanks for the invitation, Michl Pity the whole family (wife and cats) don't like car riding . But some day, who knows ... a low cost flight . I appreciate you keeping the pressure on your friend with the fuse; i am dying for that.

20th March 2011, 07:30 PM	#15
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	I know you're dying to finally get that fuse. I'll hang on kicking that guy's a.., I promise! And: a low cost flight to Bavaria would be a nice idea - watch out for it! Best, m

24th March 2011, 04:16 PM	#17
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,642	Hi Carl M Have you already handled a war hammer ... short or/and long shafted?

25th March 2011, 02:23 AM	#20
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,262	That hammer saved me from sliding off an unshingled frosty roof some 2 decades ago . I turned it around and drove the claw through the half inch plywood to hang on . It saved me from many broken bones, or worse . Good old hammer ......