A dagger from Morocco

tomato77 · 31st December 2023, 01:27 PM

Hi there,
and thanks for letting me join this great forum! I own of little collection of blades, mostly pieces I aquired on my travels around the world. There are a few pieces I cannot seem to properly identify and I hope some of you knowledgable guys will be able to help out.

The first dagger I am asking about I aquired 2002 as a young lad in the Suks of Fez in Morocco. The seller didn’t know anything about it or just wasn’t in the mood as he had to climb his highest shelf to get it down.

There is no sheath.

The dagger is 46,2cm in total length and 19,7cm in width. The blade itself is 26,5cm long. The leatherworks remind me of typical (north) african works, e.g. of the Mandingo. There are three distinct rings left and right of the hilt and at its end. I found a picture of a Mandingo dagger in Uhlmann’s „Blankwaffen aus Afrika“ (2003) on sheet 2.14 that sports at least one ring at its end and at least comparable „disks“. The crescent shaped markings on the rather well made blade remind of tuareg works and generally point in the same direction as the hilt I’d say but that’s it.

Best,

Thomas

Ian · 1st January 2024, 12:38 PM

Welcome to the Forum, Thomas. I hope we have someone here who can answer your questions about that unusual knife. This time of year many people are on vacation, so it may take a few days before you get a response.

tomato77 · 1st January 2024, 03:04 PM

Thank you, Ian, for the warm welcome. I'll cross my fingers. I have been looking in about every book I could get my hands on to indentify this knife better than 'from north africa'.

Best

Thomas

TVV · 2nd January 2024, 01:18 AM

OK, I will try to give you an answer, though it may not be the answer you are hoping for. To me this looks like something that was made in West Africa, probably Mali, and intended as a souvenir. I am attaching a picture of a couple of daggers, which while not as fancy as yours, are quite similar. The hilts are covered in leather, the leather embossing is similar, the pommels have the same leather loop and the blades are decorated with the same eyelash punch making various designs.

These were not made to be used within the culture, but for sale to tourists, and fancy looks were prioritized over functionality. In fact, most blades look like they were just cut out of a sheet of steel, and not forged. I hope this does not discourage you from sticking around and learning more, and from collecting in general.

tomato77 · 2nd January 2024, 12:43 PM

Thank you, TVV, for your answer. You don't discourage me at all, no problem. That my knife isn't ment to be carried around all day was always obvious and the leather embossing and the ring of your example are definitely very similar. What strikes me as odd are two facts: I've never ever seen a second example of my blade in 20 years of looking for it. That's quite a unique souvenir. And the blade is definitely quite well made. I got one of those examples that you've shown here - though without this intricate embossing - and totally agree that the blade it just a cheap piece of metal as it is the case with several north african knifes I've seen and/or own. This knife though got indeed a pretty well made forged blade and is quite sharp.

Best
Thomas

31st December 2023, 01:27 PM	#1
tomato77 Member Join Date: Dec 2023 Posts: 9	A dagger from Morocco Hi there, and thanks for letting me join this great forum! I own of little collection of blades, mostly pieces I aquired on my travels around the world. There are a few pieces I cannot seem to properly identify and I hope some of you knowledgable guys will be able to help out. The first dagger I am asking about I aquired 2002 as a young lad in the Suks of Fez in Morocco. The seller didn’t know anything about it or just wasn’t in the mood as he had to climb his highest shelf to get it down. There is no sheath. The dagger is 46,2cm in total length and 19,7cm in width. The blade itself is 26,5cm long. The leatherworks remind me of typical (north) african works, e.g. of the Mandingo. There are three distinct rings left and right of the hilt and at its end. I found a picture of a Mandingo dagger in Uhlmann’s „Blankwaffen aus Afrika“ (2003) on sheet 2.14 that sports at least one ring at its end and at least comparable „disks“. The crescent shaped markings on the rather well made blade remind of tuareg works and generally point in the same direction as the hilt I’d say but that’s it. Best, Thomas Attached Images

2nd January 2024, 01:18 AM	#4
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,599	OK, I will try to give you an answer, though it may not be the answer you are hoping for. To me this looks like something that was made in West Africa, probably Mali, and intended as a souvenir. I am attaching a picture of a couple of daggers, which while not as fancy as yours, are quite similar. The hilts are covered in leather, the leather embossing is similar, the pommels have the same leather loop and the blades are decorated with the same eyelash punch making various designs. These were not made to be used within the culture, but for sale to tourists, and fancy looks were prioritized over functionality. In fact, most blades look like they were just cut out of a sheet of steel, and not forged. I hope this does not discourage you from sticking around and learning more, and from collecting in general. Attached Images

1st January 2024, 12:38 PM	#2
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,037	Welcome to the Forum, Thomas. I hope we have someone here who can answer your questions about that unusual knife. This time of year many people are on vacation, so it may take a few days before you get a response.

1st January 2024, 03:04 PM	#3
tomato77 Member Join Date: Dec 2023 Posts: 9	Thank you, Ian, for the warm welcome. I'll cross my fingers. I have been looking in about every book I could get my hands on to indentify this knife better than 'from north africa'. Best Thomas

2nd January 2024, 12:43 PM	#5
tomato77 Member Join Date: Dec 2023 Posts: 9	Thank you, TVV, for your answer. You don't discourage me at all, no problem. That my knife isn't ment to be carried around all day was always obvious and the leather embossing and the ring of your example are definitely very similar. What strikes me as odd are two facts: I've never ever seen a second example of my blade in 20 years of looking for it. That's quite a unique souvenir. And the blade is definitely quite well made. I got one of those examples that you've shown here - though without this intricate embossing - and totally agree that the blade it just a cheap piece of metal as it is the case with several north african knifes I've seen and/or own. This knife though got indeed a pretty well made forged blade and is quite sharp. Best Thomas