Evidence for fake Moro Kris / Keris Sundang?

Rick · 30th July 2005, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

Well (being a deep subject and all

) there are some companies that have been making copies of Moro kris for a few years, ie. Kris Cutlery, Museum Replicas, India, etc. These companies state that these are repos and not the originals. As far as China is concerned.........

Of course , I had forgotten KC and MRL , I haven't seen the 'India' examples ; can you provide a link ?

Battara · 30th July 2005, 08:47 PM

No, but a few years ago I saw one in a catalog. If I find it again, I'll let you know. I'm pretty sure it was made by Windless.

Lew · 31st July 2005, 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

No, but a few years ago I saw one in a catalog. If I find it again, I'll let you know. I'm pretty sure it was made by Windless.

Battara

I remember those kris one was straight the other with luks and they seemed quite nice for repros.

Lew

Rick · 31st July 2005, 02:52 AM

Separate gangyas on the Indian stuff ?

My criteria is that if it is not made within the culture then it is either an interpretation or copy .

I believe Cecil's are made in country (Philippines), but are they interpretations because most likely they were made by Christian Filipinos rather than Muslims ?

Spunjer · 31st July 2005, 02:01 PM

the top one was made in india, by windlass, via atlanta cutlery. sorry, no gangya...

incidentally, there was a similar repro on one of the online antique shop trying to pass this as "an old indonesian chief kris".

kai · 31st July 2005, 11:53 PM

Here is (IMNSHO) another Indian one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7335765380

kai · 1st August 2005, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

My criteria is that if it is not made within the culture then it is either an interpretation or copy .

Hi Rick,

I guess you make exceptions if a member from another ethnic group goes through the proper training (within the culture) and continues faithfully the (once indigenous) forging tradition? (IIRC a few western bladesmiths claim to have received traditional Japanese sword forging skills.)

Quote:

I believe Cecil's are made in country (Philippines), but are they interpretations because most likely they were made by Christian Filipinos rather than Muslims ?

http://www.kriscutlery.com/philippin...x_sundang.html - rhetoric question?

IMVHO countries with many ethnic groups/tribes/peoples/religions/whatever have several cultures which may be as foreign to each other as some of them are to us.

I've never considered the usual keris-inspired blades (wether punal-sized or swords) from the northern Philippines to be Kris nor Keris.

However, there seem to be relatively faithful interpretations which I feel might qualify to be called Kris supposedly coming from non-Muslim Moro neighbors: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7330603936

Any comments? What are the oldest examples of this type?

Regards,
Kai

Rick · 1st August 2005, 01:46 AM

Hi Kai,

My best guess on the Visayan example you presented a link to is that it is indeed a Moro blade in Visayan dress .
Unfortunately the picture is miniscule .

Rick

Spunjer · 1st August 2005, 04:35 AM

Quote:

Here is (IMNSHO) another Indian one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...item=7335765380

yup, that's the same exact one like mine, down to the scabbard...

here's an example of a visayan kris:

http://www.oriental-arms.com/photos.php?id=1300.

zelbone would be the man to answer your questions

...

30th July 2005, 08:47 PM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,141	No, but a few years ago I saw one in a catalog. If I find it again, I'll let you know. I'm pretty sure it was made by Windless.

31st July 2005, 02:52 AM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,268	Separate gangyas on the Indian stuff ? My criteria is that if it is not made within the culture then it is either an interpretation or copy . I believe Cecil's are made in country (Philippines), but are they interpretations because most likely they were made by Christian Filipinos rather than Muslims ?

31st July 2005, 02:01 PM	#5
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	the top one was made in india, by windlass, via atlanta cutlery. sorry, no gangya... incidentally, there was a similar repro on one of the online antique shop trying to pass this as "an old indonesian chief kris".

31st July 2005, 11:53 PM	#6
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,223	Here is (IMNSHO) another Indian one: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7335765380

1st August 2005, 01:46 AM	#8
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,268	Hi Kai, My best guess on the Visayan example you presented a link to is that it is indeed a Moro blade in Visayan dress . Unfortunately the picture is miniscule . Rick