|
|
|||||||
 |
|
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread | Display Modes |
5th October 2009, 02:42 PM
|
#1 |
|
(deceased)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
|
15th to 16th Century North Italian Edged Weapons and Their Marks
All from Boccia/Coelho, Armi Bianche Italiane, 1975, a rather expensive and rare book:
http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=1952 Best, Michael |
|
|
|
5th October 2009, 03:13 PM
|
#2 |
|
(deceased)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
|
Cinquedeae
More.
|
|
|
|
|
5th October 2009, 03:24 PM
|
#3 |
|
(deceased)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
|
More cinquedeae.
|
|
|
|
|
5th October 2009, 03:36 PM
|
#4 |
|
(deceased)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
|
Typical Cinquedea Marks 'e' on ca. 1520-30 Tusco-Emilian Matchlock Barrels
The Gothic miniscule 'e' stands for Emilia, and almost certainly for Gardone, Val Trompia, Tusco-Emilia.
The small snap matchlock arquebus, made in Val Gardone, Tusco-Emilia, in ca. 1520-30, is in my collection (on top in the group of four) - see an earlier thread on this fine piece. The wheel-lock arquebus of ca. 1540, employing a slightly earlier etched and gilt Tusco-Emilian matchlock barrel (ca. 1520-30), is preserved in the famous Vienna arsenal. Michael Last edited by Matchlock; 6th October 2009 at 01:11 PM. |
|
|
|
|
5th October 2009, 03:41 PM
|
#5 |
|
(deceased)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
|
Another Cinquedea Struck With the 'e' Mark in The Museo Poldi Pezzoli, Milano
Enjoy.
|
|
|
|
|
5th October 2009, 03:54 PM
|
#6 |
|
(deceased)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
|
Two Extremely Rare Cinquedeae Sheaths
Made of finely tooled and hardened leather decorated in the same style as contemporary late Gothic/early Renaissance book bindings.
|
|
|
|
|
5th October 2009, 04:02 PM
|
#7 |
|
(deceased)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
|
Cinquedea Daggers And Their Sheaths
Very rare items, too.
|
|
|
|
|
5th October 2009, 04:19 PM
|
#8 |
|
(deceased)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
|
Early Venetian Swords, ca. 1460-1500
Characteristic types that soon became very common with South German, Swiss and Austrian Landsknechts.
|
|
|
|
|
5th October 2009, 04:28 PM
|
#9 |
|
(deceased)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
|
More.
|
|
|
|
|
5th October 2009, 04:54 PM
|
#10 |
|
(deceased)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
|
Landsknecht Type Swords, ca. 1500-50
These shapes, too, were very soon adopted north of the Alps.
|
|
|
|
|
5th October 2009, 04:57 PM
|
#11 |
|
(deceased)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
|
More.
|
|
|
|
|
5th October 2009, 05:31 PM
|
#12 |
|
(deceased)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
|
Extremely Rare Trefoliate Pommels, ca. 1500
Also very popular with Landsknecht swords (not Katzbalgers).
This is a short and light type of both sword and saber that was often used by arquebusiers as an auxiliary arming. Interestingly enough, the total length of these edged weapons closely corresponded to that of the contemporary arquebuses: ca. 90-95 cm! More on that topic tomorrow. Michael |
|
|
|
|
5th October 2009, 05:32 PM
|
#13 |
|
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,247
|
Neat!
Shouldn't this be in the swap section? |
|
|
|
|
5th October 2009, 05:39 PM
|
#14 |
|
(deceased)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
|
Hi fearn,
I am afraid that there is a misunderstanding: The offer in the link is not mine and that guy states that he sold his book in 2004. I would never swap or sell my copy neither is my name Nathan Robinson!   All this is solely shared for information of the community.  Best, Michael |
|
|
|
|
5th October 2009, 11:10 PM
|
#15 |
|
Arms Historian
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 9,738
|
Bellisimo Maestro!!!!
Michael, welcome back!! Its so good to have you posting again, and thank you for sharing these important details from this hard to acquire book. It is truly amazing to see how widely the influence of these Italian arms travelled, and how many of these weapons, such as the schiavona developed. The cinqueda has always been an incredibly intriguing weapon, and it is said that the distinctive pommel of the koummya in Morocco and Algeria derived from those of the cinqueda, probably from early Venetian trade on the North African littoral. There is clearly a wealth of detail on these markings as well, and thank you for pointing out the 'E' marking, small but profoundly important as its placement on not only the cinqueda but firearms suggests. Very, very nicely done ! All the best, Jim P.S. I'd never sell my copy either!!!!
|
|
|
|
|
5th October 2009, 11:37 PM
|
#16 |
|
Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,575
|
Hi Michael,
Brilliant stuff. My Regards, Norman. |
|
|
|
|
6th October 2009, 11:35 AM
|
#17 |
|
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: PR, USA
Posts: 679
|
Mikey, Mikey!
This post is grrrreat! OTOH, all your posts are great. Honor a quien honor merece Best Manuel 
|
|
|
|
|
6th October 2009, 01:16 PM
|
#18 |
|
(deceased)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
|
Hi Jim and the others,
Thanks a lot for appreciating my article. It tool me two days to scan and then reduce the photos in size. May I add that the Gothic miniscule 'e' stands for Emilia, and almost certainly for Gardone, Val Trompia, Tusco-Emilia. It is also known from some spear heads and halberd irons if I am not mistaken. Mikey (thanks to Manuel!) |
|
|
|
|
6th October 2009, 01:46 PM
|
#19 |
|
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Kent
Posts: 2,653
|
Excellent post Micheal (AKA Mikey
 )Hi Jim ,notice one of the marks if slightly altered becomes the eyelash mark....started a thread on Ethnograghic http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=10871 This mark..... . |
|
|
|
|
6th October 2009, 03:04 PM
|
#20 | |
|
Arms Historian
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 9,738
|
Quote:
David, you are truly incredibly astute, and the connection does present distinct possibilities. I am so glad that Mikey posted these pages from this wonderful reference as it really does seem that one of the primary forces in the wider diffusion of weapon forms was that of the trade networks of Northern Italy in those times. You know my long standing fascination with these markings, and it seems that the 'eyelash' (most commonly known as 'sickle' mark) is generally agreed to have originated in Northern Italy probably sometime in the early Renaissance period. It would seem that it is most likely a guild associated marking, as it is typically congruent to other markings often associated with particular makers rather than a designation for a maker itself. It was long believed that the markings had begun in Genoa, as it had become associated with trade blades from Genoa and many so marked, but it was as well known in Lucca and other centers as well. What was key was that Genoa was an export port as well as having established colonies in the outer regions of trade networks such as the Black Sea, and from here these blades were diffused widely. Eventually the markings, in various interpretation, became applied by other European armourers, as well as those in other cultural environments, such as in the Chechen regions (the 'gurda' blades) and in Afghanistan/North India usually on paluoar blades. This is at least what I have considered plausible thus far, and your observation definitely adds to what seems the true origins of this mysterious marking, in this case used in somewhat more complex grouping. Thank you so much for adding that, and Michael (aka Mikey again for this magnificent thread! The weapons of North Italy present so many avenues for weapons research, and this thread is the perfect benchmark for many discussions, as can be seen by the new thread started by David. The game is once again afoot! Forward!!!! All the very best, Jim |
|
|
|
|
|
6th October 2009, 04:23 PM
|
#21 |
|
(deceased)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
|
Brilliant, David, thanks!
Mikey |
|
|
|
|
6th October 2009, 05:40 PM
|
#22 |
|
(deceased)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
|
A Unique Italian Arquebusier's Auxiliary Armament Light Saber, ca. 1515
This has been in my collection for seven years. No other similar saber is known in any museum or private collection.
Ca. 1510-15, retaining natural staghorn grips (maybe a working time replacement) fixed by iron tubular rivets and the single edged blade preserved in its original length but reduced somewhat in width by long and heavy use, the tip double edged; the overall length of the saber is 94 cm. This one may well have seen service at the famous Battle of Pavia in 1525. Note that the rare trefoil pommel is not riveted but copper soldered to the tang which, together with the two piece staghorn grips fixed with tubular rivets, denotes that this light saber is characteristic cutlery work, just like a Grosses Messer or Seitenwehr (Kurzwehr) - does anyone know the English term - Cornelis? The item is preserved in virtually 'untouched' condition throughout; the blade is partially pitted and jagged, the hilt retains much of its original blackened surface and is pitted. After I applied olive oil to the iron surfaces (the contemporary so-called tree oil used in armories for hundreds of years) the rust turned to a bluey black which, interestingly enough and according to my experience, is absolutely typical of all ironwork surfaces between roughly ca. 1480 and 1540. This piece goes perfectly together with my four early 16th century Landsknecht matchlock arquebuses to which it also closely corresponds in its overall length. Enjoy the pics - I've finally gone digital; a heartfelt 'thanks' goes to Richard for encouraging me - how are you, my friend? Best, Michael Last edited by Matchlock; 6th October 2009 at 07:13 PM. |
|
|
|
|
6th October 2009, 05:43 PM
|
#23 |
|
(deceased)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
|
The rest of the pics.
More to come tomorrow. Michael |
|
|
|
|
6th October 2009, 06:01 PM
|
#24 |
|
(deceased)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
|
Fine Knightly Swords, Two of Them Dated 1494 and 1499 Respectively
On it goes with scans from Armi Bianche Italiane.
The hand and a half sword belonged to the Holy Roman Habsburg Emperor Maximilian I. Last edited by Matchlock; 6th October 2009 at 06:37 PM. |
|
|
|
|
6th October 2009, 06:11 PM
|
#25 |
|
(deceased)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
|
Two Swords Dated 1509, of the Emperors Maximilian I and Charles V
Enjoy.
|
|
|
|
|
6th October 2009, 06:16 PM
|
#26 |
|
(deceased)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
|
Swords of ca. 1500-10
Italian Renaissance style at its most refined.
|
|
|
|
|
6th October 2009, 06:26 PM
|
#27 |
|
(deceased)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
|
Jousting Lance Mounts and Mail Gloves (Gauntlets?)
Very rare, I have never seen an etched lance head (Krönlein) before.
|
|
|
|
|
6th October 2009, 06:31 PM
|
#28 | |
|
Lead Moderator European Armoury
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,638
|
Quote:
. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
6th October 2009, 06:33 PM
|
#29 |
|
(deceased)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
|
Well, it's Miguel to you, Fernando, my friend, anyway!
|
|
|
|
|
6th October 2009, 06:47 PM
|
#30 |
|
(deceased)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
|
Italian Falchions, ca. 1460
These are called Malchus swords in German, named after the soldier whose ear was reportedly chopped off by St. Peter at Getsemani.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Linear Mode
