Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Keris Warung Kopi

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 28th June 2018, 11:55 PM   #1
Athanase
Member
 
Athanase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Paris (France)
Posts: 403
Default Origine of Bugis Keris?

Hello,

I am looking for the origin of this Keris. The scabbard is very similar to those I have from Sulawesi but it is not the original one that has been adapted for the blade... (I had never seen this method before)

The blade is unusual for me. I only once saw another similar old blade on the internet on a Bugis keris but I do not remember where.
The strangest on the blade is the Sogokan that seems to have been added afterwards but it seems old because this part is also eroded.
The handle is also quite different from what we see most often.

Thanks for your help.
Attached Images
   
Athanase is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th June 2018, 12:14 AM   #2
David
Keris forum moderator
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,012
Default

I'm not so sure i see a Bugis blade when i look at this keris Athanase. What about it make you identify it as Bugis?
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th June 2018, 12:18 AM   #3
Athanase
Member
 
Athanase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Paris (France)
Posts: 403
Default

I confess that I mainly based on the dress of the keris, but also on the solid and massive aspect of the blade.
Athanase is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th June 2018, 12:25 AM   #4
Athanase
Member
 
Athanase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Paris (France)
Posts: 403
Default

After reflection, the blade does not have the hexagonal section typical of keris Bugis but rather a rhombic section that would be more reminiscent of penisular keris.
Athanase is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th June 2018, 05:14 PM   #5
Bjorn
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 188
Default

My first instinct when I saw the blade was Sumatra, but I could be wrong.
Bjorn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th June 2018, 10:05 AM   #6
Jean
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,740
Default

Please see a quite similar blade (15 shallow luks, poorly carved sogokan, etc.) initially fitted on a Balinese kris! My guess about its origin is Sumbawa or Sumatra.
Regards
Attached Images
 
Jean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th June 2018, 10:44 AM   #7
Jean
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,740
Default

The hilt from Athanase has a more erect and compact shape than the pangulu rekko style hilts from Sulawesi, and looks like a mix of pangulu and Jawa demam style hilts. The origin of these hilts may be East Sumatra (see another specimen) or possibly Sumbawa.
Regards
Attached Images
 

Last edited by Jean; 1st July 2018 at 09:12 AM.
Jean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th June 2018, 11:57 AM   #8
Athanase
Member
 
Athanase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Paris (France)
Posts: 403
Default

Thank you very much Jean.
So it's probably a Keris from Sumatra (maybe East Sumatra).
Athanase is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th June 2018, 04:23 PM   #9
Jean
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,740
Default

Hello Athanase,
This is my best guess but other opinions from Bugis/ Malay kris specialists are welcome as I was not sure myself about the origin of my kris and my hilt
Regards
Jean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th June 2018, 08:18 PM   #10
A. G. Maisey
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,675
Default

During the 1930's, and continuing after WWII, keris dealers from Central Jawa used to go to Bali to buy Balinese keris that could be reshaped into Javanese keris. They did this because good Javanese keris were becoming scarce and Balinese keris at that time were very cheap. Balinese keris were cheap because the Balinese had lost faith in the keris, and thus in the power of their Gods and Ancestors to assist in times of trouble. Their leaders had engaged in puputans (a Puputan is a "finishing") Balinese society was being reshaped by the Dutch. There was no place for the keris in Bali.

In Bali these dealers encountered a type of keris that they had not seen before, they called this keris "tangguh Kupang".

They did not know where it actually came from, except that Bali people knew that it came from somewhere off to the East, past Lombok.

This keris under discussion has about 90% agreement with what a Solo dealer of pre-1980 would call "Tangguh Kupang". It was called Tangguh Kupang, because all they knew about Kupang was that Kupang was off to the east somewhere too.
A. G. Maisey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st July 2018, 09:10 AM   #11
Jean
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,740
Default

Thank you Alan for this precious information as usual!
Kupang is the capital city of West Timor where there is no kris tradition but who knows?
Regards

Last edited by Jean; 1st July 2018 at 10:30 AM.
Jean is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:25 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.