Different Borneo sword

[Indianajones]

Roy, I happen to stumble upon this piece which has the similar features on the blade and indeed this piece I would also ascribe to the Iban of Sarawak, and than to the North of their region(close to the Murut region). See that this blade also lacks the 'concaveness'.
<<I hope these pics are allowed as my intensions are just of comparative use n it is already sold.>>
Still the style of the gripcarving is quite unlike other grips I've seen n had from this particular area. Although it might explain -as the Kelabit plateau is more elevated- the use of pine?-sort of wood; more growing in higher altitude regions.

Best, Wouter

[VVV]

Indiana,

Now it seems to me like you are making this thread even more puzzling and unnecessary confusing than it was before you entered.
I don't see the purpose of bringing this new parang into the discussion?
The new one is an ilang (concave/convex blade) and not any of the flat blade swords from NW Borneo (like Roy's parang).
Also it does not have any protrusions (like Roy's parang), nor does it have a square tip (like Roy's parang).
The main common denominator is that the blade is of Iban origin, and not Murut like you suggested in your first post.
So how does this parang contribute to the original discussion?

Michael

[asomotif]

Originally Posted by Indianajones

Roy, I happen to stumble upon this piece which has the similar features on the blade and indeed this piece I would also ascribe to the Iban of Sarawak, and than to the North of their region(close to the Murut region). See that this blade also lacks the 'concaveness'.

Best way to note concaveness is seeing both sides of the blade.
But this example from Ashoka arts is clearly concave imho.

[asomotif]

Sorry to bring in yet another blade, but this one from my collection has quite some similarities imho.

Adding a better picture of the blade and blade tip / 2nd april.

[VVV]

Yes Willem, from your comparison it shows that the tip is shortened and how it maybe looked before.

Roy, do you have any more "ordinary" Iban parang in your collection that you could place next to this one in a picture so we easier can judge its proportions?

Michael

[Indianajones]

Wel (Michael!) from both Willems example (and the one I attached) we may derive that the -perhaps somewhat blunt- ending of the blade does NOT mean it was originally longer.

Also Willems example has a handle which shows a bit more the Murut sort of grip and carved symbols as I know them. Many of this type have large tufts of human hair attached under the (metal) bands of the scabbard. The engravings on his are also similar but lack the dividing in different sections. This example also confirms that we are in the right area, namely in the most North East Sarawak corner where the Iban meet the Kelabit and Murut.


Anyone has a mandau/parang which has a similar grip? That would really help!

To be clear; not all Murut used/wore a 'pakayun' (long curved parang with forked grip).
Also with the Bahau-tribe I did not mean the tribes living around the Bahau river (near Apokayan if I recall correctly) but a tribe on the Mahakam river neighboured by Modang, Busang and Kenyah.

I believe the points (knowledge n experience) I make are clear enough to bring us closer to the answer, hopefully?!?.

Best,W

[VVV]

Indiana,

I question your claim that the sharply blunt tip is original but I do not mind to be proven wrong.

Can you please post a resembling Iban (or Murut?) reference sword with (at least almost) identical blade features to prove your point? (I am not interested to see any jimpul etc. but blades that actually belong to the same kind of category as this one.)

I prefer the tradition of this forum to back up one's claims with proper references (either scholarly works or reference swords with documented origin), instead of praising one's own "knowledge n experience" as an argument.

Michael

[asomotif]

Originally Posted by VVV

Yes Willem, from your comparison it shows that the tip is shortened and how it maybe looked before.

Roy, do you have any more "ordinary" Iban parang in your collection that you could place next to this one in a picture so we easier can judge its proportions?

Michael

Hello Michael,

Probably it is not very clear on my previous pictures. I made some new / better ones.
My blade is missing one curl on the blade tip.
With my limited skills in paint I have tried to recreate this missing curl.

Based on this picture with the recreated curl I still want to suggest that Roy's blade can be original.

Best regards,
Willem

[Maurice]

Originally Posted by asomotif

Based on this picture with the recreated curl I still want to suggest that Roy's blade can be original.

Ofcourse it could be original, as there is always to be found an exception of the rule.
But looking at the whole feature of Roy's blade, it looks very weird if that would be original, and I've searched my database and can't find any similar blade with such blunt tip.

I found an image though of a blade with similar brass inlaid decoration as on Roy's blade, but can't post it as it's an image from the former museum of Nijmegen and belongs to a friendcollector who made it there, and unfortunately I'm not allowed to post it here.
That one hasn't a blunt tip for what it's worth.

Maurice

[asomotif]

Originally Posted by Maurice

Ofcourse it could be original, as there is always to be found an exception of the rule.
But looking at the whole feature of Roy's blade, it looks very weird if that would be original, and I've searched my database and can't find any similar blade with such blunt tip.

Hello Maurice,

Thanks for stepping in.
Do you have examples of these similar blades with different blade tips ?
I mean parang blade, both sides flat + decorated.

I agree that if you look at the complete blade of Roy's example, you would think that it is too blunt.
But if you compare the tip with mine example, mine is just slightly more pointed, as indicated with my new attempt in paint

Roy's pictures of the entire blade and of the tip of his blade are both under different angles, so they do not give a exact angle, but i guess you get my point based on below comparisson.