It's the same old story

sjors · 8th August 2008, 06:41 PM

It's the same old story and I allready know some people won't like it but...

Believe me; I read all the old posts about staining but they didn't help me much, I expiremented a lot but I still wonder:
It's a wellknown fact that getting Arsenic Trioxid or Realgar is a major problem in many countries nowadays. In my opinion there must be, chemically spoken, an alternative but simelar way to Arsenic Trioxid;
A freely available substance, a substitute that reacts in the same way with iron and nickel; a process that gives the same result like Arsenic Trioxid or Realgar does.
I'm sure i'm not the only one with this question (problem) and I appreciate and respect the proper, "old" ways but sometimes you don't have any other option than find and use "new" solutions...
What will be the alternative way?

Henk · 8th August 2008, 08:50 PM

Sjors,

If there was an alternative way, many of us would use that way. Unfortunately there is only one proper way to stain a pamor blade and that is the use of warangan, with arsenic. Nothing else react as lemon juice with arsenic. Believe me, many of the respectable forummembers tried to stain pamorblades with other solutions, but thus far nobody succeeded to get a result that came in the direction of staining with warangan.

Rick · 8th August 2008, 08:58 PM

Henk, are you aware of anyone who stains blades traditionally in the Netherlands ?

It would seem with so much interest in keris there ..

David · 8th August 2008, 09:50 PM

Yep, i am afraid that the "same old story" gets the "same old answer".

A. G. Maisey · 8th August 2008, 11:09 PM

I have stained blades with ferric chloride, and with a mixture of sulphur, salt, and rice water.

The sulphur mix was used on an old blade and it came up very acceptable. Only ever did one blade this way, as it was too much mucking around.

Ferric chloride I've use a number of times, and for old style Javanese pamor, or Bugis pamor, it gives a fairly OK result.

I've used warangan (realgar) bought in Indonesia many, many times. The results are variable, and not always predictable. I personally don't like Javanese warangan much. In fact, at the moment the stuff that's available in Solo is absolutely no good.

I get the best results from laboratory quality white arsenic.

Yes, these days there are difficulties associated with buying it, but in Australia, if you have a Hazchem certificate you can get it. You can get a Hazchem certificate, that is, a certificate that qualifies you to handle hazardous chemicals, for the cost a bit of tech attendance and some easy exams.My guess would be that the same or a similar situation applies in other countries. I guess it all depends on how bad somebody wants to stain blades correctly.

Marcokeris · 9th August 2008, 02:13 AM

I stained blades with warangan many, many times. I tried also with others substances but the result was always bad

. By warangam with new blades the result has been always good

........with old blades

sometimes good.... sometimes accettable...sometimes no good

If a person finds an easy way to stain the blades he must win chemic's Nobel

Tomorrow I must stain an old blade ....first time (a week ago) the result was no accettable. Now I have done a new liquid (brasilian limes and warangan) i hope to have a different exit (IMO the more difficult passage is the final : when I must clean the blade with water)

8th August 2008, 06:41 PM	#1
sjors Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 68	It's the same old story It's the same old story and I allready know some people won't like it but... Believe me; I read all the old posts about staining but they didn't help me much, I expiremented a lot but I still wonder: It's a wellknown fact that getting Arsenic Trioxid or Realgar is a major problem in many countries nowadays. In my opinion there must be, chemically spoken, an alternative but simelar way to Arsenic Trioxid; A freely available substance, a substitute that reacts in the same way with iron and nickel; a process that gives the same result like Arsenic Trioxid or Realgar does. I'm sure i'm not the only one with this question (problem) and I appreciate and respect the proper, "old" ways but sometimes you don't have any other option than find and use "new" solutions... What will be the alternative way?

8th August 2008, 08:50 PM	#2
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Sjors, If there was an alternative way, many of us would use that way. Unfortunately there is only one proper way to stain a pamor blade and that is the use of warangan, with arsenic. Nothing else react as lemon juice with arsenic. Believe me, many of the respectable forummembers tried to stain pamorblades with other solutions, but thus far nobody succeeded to get a result that came in the direction of staining with warangan.

8th August 2008, 08:58 PM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,262	Henk, are you aware of anyone who stains blades traditionally in the Netherlands ? It would seem with so much interest in keris there ..

8th August 2008, 09:50 PM	#4
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,027	Yep, i am afraid that the "same old story" gets the "same old answer".

8th August 2008, 11:09 PM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,703	I have stained blades with ferric chloride, and with a mixture of sulphur, salt, and rice water. The sulphur mix was used on an old blade and it came up very acceptable. Only ever did one blade this way, as it was too much mucking around. Ferric chloride I've use a number of times, and for old style Javanese pamor, or Bugis pamor, it gives a fairly OK result. I've used warangan (realgar) bought in Indonesia many, many times. The results are variable, and not always predictable. I personally don't like Javanese warangan much. In fact, at the moment the stuff that's available in Solo is absolutely no good. I get the best results from laboratory quality white arsenic. Yes, these days there are difficulties associated with buying it, but in Australia, if you have a Hazchem certificate you can get it. You can get a Hazchem certificate, that is, a certificate that qualifies you to handle hazardous chemicals, for the cost a bit of tech attendance and some easy exams.My guess would be that the same or a similar situation applies in other countries. I guess it all depends on how bad somebody wants to stain blades correctly.

9th August 2008, 02:13 AM	#6
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	I stained blades with warangan many, many times. I tried also with others substances but the result was always bad . By warangam with new blades the result has been always good ........with old blades sometimes good.... sometimes accettable...sometimes no good If a person finds an easy way to stain the blades he must win chemic's Nobel Tomorrow I must stain an old blade ....first time (a week ago) the result was no accettable. Now I have done a new liquid (brasilian limes and warangan) i hope to have a different exit (IMO the more difficult passage is the final : when I must clean the blade with water)