A pair of pocket pistols for comments

fernando · 16th June 2015, 03:51 PM

I assume this type of pistol is rather common. But it gets more interesting when they are a pair, both in very good condition, with a well designed hammer and a nice grooved brass lid in the caps compartment.
All parts functioning perfectly ... the two step boxlock mechanisms, the cap box lids, the concealed triggers and ... the multi rifled barrels still able to turn off.
No makers or proof marks; only number 3 and 4 matching in each hammer, breech and barrel.
Most possibly neither British nor Liege. I will call them Continental until some member attributes them a more precise origin, something i would appreciate.
The stocks are made in a wood of rather pronounced intrincate effect, even more than in the pictures; may i risk walnut root ? i don't know ...
Caliber 11 m/m. Barrel lentgh 5.5 cms; total length 15 cms. Weight each 195 grams.

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Fernando K · 16th June 2015, 08:27 PM

namesake

I lean that is French, lack the punch of Liege, and is circa 1860 that the housing is constructed in one piece, with the bedroom, not a false side, and the two copies of box-lock I uploaded the forum.

I refer very similar pair at the site of Udo Lander's these with the punch ELG

Excellent photographs, the only thing missing is the mouth, with multi-grooved and the grooves for screwdriver

Affectionately. Fernando K

Fernando K · 16th June 2015, 09:40 PM

namesake

Another feature to most of the false side, with the primitive models of box-lock (flint and percussion) is that the trigger is not on half-cock, and recently displayed when the cock comes to full-cock.

In the latest models of box-lock (percussion) meets the trigger two functions, half-cock and full-cock, and lacks an intermediate piece and then the mainspring is double action, because it governs the cock and the trigger. I think this should be the case. The trigger and appears in half-cock, while the cock has the notch security.

Not if I have been clear.

Affectionately. Fernando K

ulfberth · 17th June 2015, 01:33 PM

Hi Fernando,

to me these are French, I had encountered more of these in the past.
The ones you have are indeed nice with the shell box lock and in perfect condition !

Kind regards

Ulfberth

fernando · 17th June 2015, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fernando K

namesake

Another feature to most of the false side, with the primitive models of box-lock (flint and percussion) is that the trigger is not on half-cock, and recently displayed when the cock comes to full-cock.

In the latest models of box-lock (percussion) meets the trigger two functions, half-cock and full-cock, and lacks an intermediate piece and then the mainspring is double action, because it governs the cock and the trigger. I think this should be the case. The trigger and appears in half-cock, while the cock has the notch security.

Not if I have been clear.

Affectionately. Fernando K

Hola Fernando,
This time your translation machine made a text rather difficult to interpreter.
It should be nice if you add to it the original text in spanish; that will enable for a better understanding for some of us ... like me

I confirm these pistols have half cock and full cock positions. Does this mean by itself that the date of these pistols would be around 1860?
I didn't take photos of the mouth because in this case there are no grooves for an opening spanner.

fernando · 17th June 2015, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ulfberth

Hi Fernando,

to me these are French, I had encountered more of these in the past.
The ones you have are indeed nice with the shell box lock and in perfect condition !

Kind regards

Ulfberth

Thank you Ulfberth

.
So French they will be

Fernando K · 17th June 2015, 02:26 PM

Querido Fernando

La fecha de 1860 (el ultimo periodo de la percusion) la puse por el metodo de construccion. No tienen un falso costado (como en los dos ejemplares de box-lock que subi al foro, de mi propiedad) y en los dos ejemplares de Udo Lander Si te fijas con atencion, al costado izquierdo de la box veras una tenue linea, el limite del falso costado.

Asimismo, en los ultimos ejemplares de box-lock, el disparador ya aparece en media-monta, y el martillo tiene una muesca de seguridad en el diente de media monta y aparece completamente cuando el martillo llega a full-cock; cosa que no sucede en los ejemplares primitivos (chispa y percusion). Si te dijas atentamente en los dos ejemplares que subi al foro, de mi propiedad, hay fotos en que el gallo o martillo esta en media monta, y el disparador permanece oculto

Me llama la atencion la ausencia de muescas pra el destornillador ¿No sera que el destornillador calza en las estrias?

Afectuosamente. Fernando K

Fernando K · 17th June 2015, 02:31 PM

dear Fernando The date of 1860 (the last period of percussion) put it by the method of construction. They not have a false side (as in the two copies of box-lock that went up to the forum, my property) and the two copies of Udo Lander If you look carefully, the left side of the box you will see a faint line, the limit the false side. Also, in the last copies of box-lock, trigger and it appears in half-mount, and the hammer has a safety catch on the tooth middle mounted and fully displayed when the hammer comes to full-cock; which it does not happen in the early copies (spark and percussion). If you dijas carefully in both copies went up to the forum, my property, there are pictures on the cock or hammer is mounted in half, and the trigger remains hidden I am struck by the absence of notches pra screwdriver Could it be that the screwdriver fits into stretch marks? Affectionately. Fernando K

fernando · 17th June 2015, 04:39 PM

Fully understood ... gracias

.

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Fernando K · 17th June 2015, 09:13 PM

Querido Fernando
inposibke ute no hubiera un metodo para enroscar-desenroscar los barrel. La herramienta era un cilindro que tenia 4 8 y mas raramente tres resaltos, un poco inclinados (segun la inclinacion de las estrias) que encajaban en las estrias. Soi te fijas en el rayado, en la posicion de 5 o 10 minutos, veras una estria un poco mayor, deformada

Solo me falta saber que numero de estrias

Afectuosamenre. Fernando K

Fernando K · 17th June 2015, 09:16 PM

dear Fernando
impossible that there was a method to screw-unscrew the barrel. The tool was a cylinder that was 4 8 and more rarely three projections, slightly inclined (according to inclination of stretch marks) that fit into the grooves. Soi fixed you in the striped, at position 5 or 10 minutes, you will see a groove a little older, deformed

I just need to know that number of flutes

Afectuosamenre. Fernando K

fernando · 18th June 2015, 03:33 PM

After posting the above considerations, Fernando K sent me a PM with a suggestion he titled as IDEA LOCA (crazy idea).
Well, it doesn't seem so crazy after all. On the contrary, a rather plausible solution for the misterious lack of barrel lugs for a turn off spanner; the grooved hammers couple with the barrel rifles

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Muchas gracias, Fernando.

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fernando · 21st June 2015, 12:09 PM

Now in a little case ...

~-

Fernando K · 21st June 2015, 09:53 PM

dear Fernando

"A lack of bread, cakes are good" leads the saying, and in the absence of the original box, with accessories (clip bullets melt, Polvorera, screwdriver percussion box) is that they are good in this case ...

Affectionately. Fernando K

Kmaddock · 21st June 2015, 10:59 PM

Hi
Nice pistols
In my experience a lot of these twist off barrel pistols have the stock snapped or broken from where I imagine some one has gripped the pistol and twisted barrel too much and broken the timber
As this hammer being used to grip barrel is a v rare and nice idea I wonder did it not gain popularity as in the act of twisting a stuck barrel could also damage the hammer of the other weapon.
Lovely to get the matched set where you can see how the idea was developed and explored
Regards
Ken

fernando · 22nd June 2015, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fernando K

dear Fernando

"A lack of bread, cakes are good" leads the saying, and in the absence of the original box, with accessories (clip bullets melt, Polvorera, screwdriver percussion box) is that they are good in this case ...

Affectionately. Fernando K

Gracias Fernando.
Same as saying: If you don't have a dog, hunt with a cat

.

fernando · 22nd June 2015, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kmaddock

Hi
Nice pistols
In my experience a lot of these twist off barrel pistols have the stock snapped or broken from where I imagine some one has gripped the pistol and twisted barrel too much and broken the timber
As this hammer being used to grip barrel is a v rare and nice idea I wonder did it not gain popularity as in the act of twisting a stuck barrel could also damage the hammer of the other weapon.
Lovely to get the matched set where you can see how the idea was developed and explored
Regards
Ken

Thank you Ken,
Indeed turn off barrels are very ofen hard to unscrew; either because they get stuck with rust or as a result of chamber swelling due to frequent shooting.
In my collecting course, i guess i found more of such barrels stuck than operational.
As these are not for shooting, i am happy that their barrels still turn with ease and specially now that their turning solution was revealed.

16th June 2015, 03:51 PM	#1
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,638	A pair of pocket pistols for comments I assume this type of pistol is rather common. But it gets more interesting when they are a pair, both in very good condition, with a well designed hammer and a nice grooved brass lid in the caps compartment. All parts functioning perfectly ... the two step boxlock mechanisms, the cap box lids, the concealed triggers and ... the multi rifled barrels still able to turn off. No makers or proof marks; only number 3 and 4 matching in each hammer, breech and barrel. Most possibly neither British nor Liege. I will call them Continental until some member attributes them a more precise origin, something i would appreciate. The stocks are made in a wood of rather pronounced intrincate effect, even more than in the pictures; may i risk walnut root ? i don't know ... Caliber 11 m/m. Barrel lentgh 5.5 cms; total length 15 cms. Weight each 195 grams. . Attached Images

16th June 2015, 08:27 PM	#2
Fernando K Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 663	namesake I lean that is French, lack the punch of Liege, and is circa 1860 that the housing is constructed in one piece, with the bedroom, not a false side, and the two copies of box-lock I uploaded the forum. I refer very similar pair at the site of Udo Lander's these with the punch ELG Excellent photographs, the only thing missing is the mouth, with multi-grooved and the grooves for screwdriver Affectionately. Fernando K Attached Images

17th June 2015, 04:39 PM	#9
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,638	Fully understood ... gracias . . Attached Images

18th June 2015, 03:33 PM	#12
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,638	After posting the above considerations, Fernando K sent me a PM with a suggestion he titled as IDEA LOCA (crazy idea). Well, it doesn't seem so crazy after all. On the contrary, a rather plausible solution for the misterious lack of barrel lugs for a turn off spanner; the grooved hammers couple with the barrel rifles . Muchas gracias, Fernando. . Attached Images

21st June 2015, 12:09 PM	#13
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,638	Now in a little case ... ~- Attached Images Last edited by fernando; 22nd June 2015 at 01:38 PM.

16th June 2015, 09:40 PM	#3
Fernando K Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 663	namesake Another feature to most of the false side, with the primitive models of box-lock (flint and percussion) is that the trigger is not on half-cock, and recently displayed when the cock comes to full-cock. In the latest models of box-lock (percussion) meets the trigger two functions, half-cock and full-cock, and lacks an intermediate piece and then the mainspring is double action, because it governs the cock and the trigger. I think this should be the case. The trigger and appears in half-cock, while the cock has the notch security. Not if I have been clear. Affectionately. Fernando K

17th June 2015, 01:33 PM	#4
ulfberth Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 382	Hi Fernando, to me these are French, I had encountered more of these in the past. The ones you have are indeed nice with the shell box lock and in perfect condition ! Kind regards Ulfberth

17th June 2015, 02:26 PM	#7
Fernando K Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 663	Querido Fernando La fecha de 1860 (el ultimo periodo de la percusion) la puse por el metodo de construccion. No tienen un falso costado (como en los dos ejemplares de box-lock que subi al foro, de mi propiedad) y en los dos ejemplares de Udo Lander Si te fijas con atencion, al costado izquierdo de la box veras una tenue linea, el limite del falso costado. Asimismo, en los ultimos ejemplares de box-lock, el disparador ya aparece en media-monta, y el martillo tiene una muesca de seguridad en el diente de media monta y aparece completamente cuando el martillo llega a full-cock; cosa que no sucede en los ejemplares primitivos (chispa y percusion). Si te dijas atentamente en los dos ejemplares que subi al foro, de mi propiedad, hay fotos en que el gallo o martillo esta en media monta, y el disparador permanece oculto Me llama la atencion la ausencia de muescas pra el destornillador ¿No sera que el destornillador calza en las estrias? Afectuosamente. Fernando K

17th June 2015, 02:31 PM	#8
Fernando K Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 663	dear Fernando The date of 1860 (the last period of percussion) put it by the method of construction. They not have a false side (as in the two copies of box-lock that went up to the forum, my property) and the two copies of Udo Lander If you look carefully, the left side of the box you will see a faint line, the limit the false side. Also, in the last copies of box-lock, trigger and it appears in half-mount, and the hammer has a safety catch on the tooth middle mounted and fully displayed when the hammer comes to full-cock; which it does not happen in the early copies (spark and percussion). If you dijas carefully in both copies went up to the forum, my property, there are pictures on the cock or hammer is mounted in half, and the trigger remains hidden I am struck by the absence of notches pra screwdriver Could it be that the screwdriver fits into stretch marks? Affectionately. Fernando K

17th June 2015, 09:13 PM	#10
Fernando K Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 663	Querido Fernando inposibke ute no hubiera un metodo para enroscar-desenroscar los barrel. La herramienta era un cilindro que tenia 4 8 y mas raramente tres resaltos, un poco inclinados (segun la inclinacion de las estrias) que encajaban en las estrias. Soi te fijas en el rayado, en la posicion de 5 o 10 minutos, veras una estria un poco mayor, deformada Solo me falta saber que numero de estrias Afectuosamenre. Fernando K

17th June 2015, 09:16 PM	#11
Fernando K Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 663	dear Fernando impossible that there was a method to screw-unscrew the barrel. The tool was a cylinder that was 4 8 and more rarely three projections, slightly inclined (according to inclination of stretch marks) that fit into the grooves. Soi fixed you in the striped, at position 5 or 10 minutes, you will see a groove a little older, deformed I just need to know that number of flutes Afectuosamenre. Fernando K

21st June 2015, 09:53 PM	#14
Fernando K Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 663	dear Fernando "A lack of bread, cakes are good" leads the saying, and in the absence of the original box, with accessories (clip bullets melt, Polvorera, screwdriver percussion box) is that they are good in this case ... Affectionately. Fernando K

21st June 2015, 10:59 PM	#15
Kmaddock Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Ireland Posts: 532	Hi Nice pistols In my experience a lot of these twist off barrel pistols have the stock snapped or broken from where I imagine some one has gripped the pistol and twisted barrel too much and broken the timber As this hammer being used to grip barrel is a v rare and nice idea I wonder did it not gain popularity as in the act of twisting a stuck barrel could also damage the hammer of the other weapon. Lovely to get the matched set where you can see how the idea was developed and explored Regards Ken