Majapahit Keris - Page 2

A. G. Maisey · 17th June 2019, 02:37 PM

A crop.

The blade indentation is damage

Gustav, why do you say the von Sulz keris is heavily reshaped?

Gustav · 17th June 2019, 10:57 PM

Alan, just to be sure - the area marked with red is damaged? Thank you for the cropped image.

Regarding von Sulz Keris - because the distance between center ridge and blade edge varies a lot. Generally it seems to have lost its original width above Sorsoran, it looks to me just like the edges were resharpened, sometimes seen on Keris in Europa used as (hunting) weapons. Very similar look above Sorsoran has the Keris on p. 94 in Jensen's book.

A. G. Maisey · 17th June 2019, 11:40 PM

Yes Gustav, the area you have marked with red is a big chip out of the blade.

Thank you for your reasoning on the possible re-working of the blade.

Gavin Nugent · 30th August 2022, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gustav

Alan, just to be sure - the area marked with red is damaged? Thank you for the cropped image.

Regarding von Sulz Keris - because the distance between center ridge and blade edge varies a lot. Generally it seems to have lost its original width above Sorsoran, it looks to me just like the edges were resharpened, sometimes seen on Keris in Europa used as (hunting) weapons. Very similar look above Sorsoran has the Keris on p. 94 in Jensen's book.

I know little about these old keris and the history attached to them, but just a casual uninformed passing comment... there are numerous Sulawesi keris that in one sense or another follow this profile

I continue to read and learn.

A. G. Maisey · 30th August 2022, 10:33 PM

Thank you for your comment Gavin.

When you say that some Sulawesi keris have a profile similar to the stone carving that has a chip, I have never seen this, could you perhaps post an image of one or more of these Sulawesi keris with a profile similar to the chipped stone carving?

Gavin Nugent · 1st September 2022, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Thank you for your comment Gavin.

When you say that some Sulawesi keris have a profile similar to the stone carving that has a chip, I have never seen this, could you perhaps post an image of one or more of these Sulawesi keris with a profile similar to the chipped stone carving?

Apologies for the mis quote Alan, I was referring to the keris Gustav presented, just loosely speaking...the first image is a rather acute cut away where more traditional lines flow through this area in a nice sweeping curve.. the second one, whilst not a pronounced cut away, does exhibit some features that are aligned with the von Sulz keris... to my eye at least...

A. G. Maisey · 1st September 2022, 10:55 AM

I'm sorry Gavin, but I don't really understand what you mean.

What I can see is the von Sulz keris with its slightly unusual form, and the two sections of keris that you have posted with nothing unusual at all that I can see.

Even the von Sulz form can be found in some Javanese keris of a later date.

To me, all three of these keris are just forms that fall within the parameters of Javanese & other keris form.

Gustav thought that the von Sulz keris might have been reshaped, & that is possible, probably most older keris have been reshaped somewhere along the line, part of the maintenance procedure for keris calls for frayed or chipped edges to be tidied up, so over time the keris loses its original form.

The von Sulz might have been reshaped for some other reason, to me all this is normal & expected its probably not even worth comment, it is just what happens.

17th June 2019, 02:37 PM	#31
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,697	A crop. The blade indentation is damage Gustav, why do you say the von Sulz keris is heavily reshaped? Attached Images

17th June 2019, 10:57 PM	#32
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,196	Alan, just to be sure - the area marked with red is damaged? Thank you for the cropped image. Regarding von Sulz Keris - because the distance between center ridge and blade edge varies a lot. Generally it seems to have lost its original width above Sorsoran, it looks to me just like the edges were resharpened, sometimes seen on Keris in Europa used as (hunting) weapons. Very similar look above Sorsoran has the Keris on p. 94 in Jensen's book. Attached Images Last edited by Gustav; 17th June 2019 at 11:34 PM.

17th June 2019, 11:40 PM	#33
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,697	Yes Gustav, the area you have marked with red is a big chip out of the blade. Thank you for your reasoning on the possible re-working of the blade.

30th August 2022, 10:33 PM	#35
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,697	Thank you for your comment Gavin. When you say that some Sulawesi keris have a profile similar to the stone carving that has a chip, I have never seen this, could you perhaps post an image of one or more of these Sulawesi keris with a profile similar to the chipped stone carving?

1st September 2022, 10:55 AM	#37
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,697	I'm sorry Gavin, but I don't really understand what you mean. What I can see is the von Sulz keris with its slightly unusual form, and the two sections of keris that you have posted with nothing unusual at all that I can see. Even the von Sulz form can be found in some Javanese keris of a later date. To me, all three of these keris are just forms that fall within the parameters of Javanese & other keris form. Gustav thought that the von Sulz keris might have been reshaped, & that is possible, probably most older keris have been reshaped somewhere along the line, part of the maintenance procedure for keris calls for frayed or chipped edges to be tidied up, so over time the keris loses its original form. The von Sulz might have been reshaped for some other reason, to me all this is normal & expected its probably not even worth comment, it is just what happens.