Enquiry about a Bali keris motif

[jagabuwana]

A type of Yali, perhaps?

From wikipedia:

Yali (Tamil: யாளி, IAST: Yāḷi),[1] also called Vyala,[2] is a Hindu mythological creature, portrayed with the head and the body of a lion, the trunk and the tusks of an elephant, and sometimes bearing equine features.[3]

That said, I know nothing about whether that fits with what we know about what figures are depicted in Balinese hinduism as it relates to the keris. I don't know if Yali's feature in Bali at all and I've never seen one being depicted on a keris, but again, I wouldn't know.

Whatever or whoever this figure is, as we've seen many times on this forum, in absence of glaringly obvious features or by-the-book details by a craftsman intending to do faithful depictions, it can be difficult and sometimes impossible to know for sure unless we ask the maker themselves.

Nevertheless I'm interested to see whether this can lead to a positive ID of this figure so that I may learn more about it.

Sources:
1. Wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yali_%28mythology
2. Wikicommons - https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...anthapuram.jpg

[Anthony G.]

Originally Posted by jagabuwana

A type of Yali, perhaps?

From wikipedia:

Yali (Tamil: யாளி, IAST: Yāḷi),[1] also called Vyala,[2] is a Hindu mythological creature, portrayed with the head and the body of a lion, the trunk and the tusks of an elephant, and sometimes bearing equine features.[3]

That said, I know nothing about whether that fits with what we know about what figures are depicted in Balinese hinduism as it relates to the keris. I don't know if Yali's feature in Bali at all and I've never seen one being depicted on a keris, but again, I wouldn't know.

Whatever or whoever this figure is, as we've seen many times on this forum, in absence of glaringly obvious features or by-the-book details by a craftsman intending to do faithful depictions, it can be difficult and sometimes impossible to know for sure unless we ask the maker themselves.

Nevertheless I'm interested to see whether this can lead to a positive ID of this figure so that I may learn more about it.

Sources:
1. Wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yali_%28mythology
2. Wikicommons - https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...anthapuram.jpg

Looks very much like it. Interesting.

[JoeCanada42]

what a cool sword,
so very very interesting...

[milandro]

I think the first link isn't displaying the way it should , I've tried to help but returns the same result ( it asks did you mean Did you mean: Yali (mythology)? and you have to click that one)




this is a rather more elaborate page

https://viluptduniya.wordpress.com/2...the-protector/

[A. G. Maisey]

The idea of "Yali" is certainly a part of Hindu mythology, there are a number of different types of Yali, and they serve a number of different functions, they also have a number different names.

However, Bali-Hindu is not mainstream Hindu.

I do not recognise this figure under discussion, I do not know of the representation of Yali in any of its forms in Balinese art or mythology. This does not mean that such representation does not exist, it only means that I have not encountered it in Bali, and I feel that if it does exist in Bali, I probably should have encountered it.

From what we can see of this blade, it does appear to have some age, but looks in an image on a screen can be very deceptive.

My current feeling is that we might be looking at a comparatively recent artistic essay here, possibly Bali, more likely Lombok, and I do not think it is from East Jawa/Madura.

By "comparatively recent" I mean within the last 100 years or so.

The above cannot be read as an opinion, it is comment that might hopefully lead to further discussion.

[David]

Originally Posted by jagabuwana

A type of Yali, perhaps?

From wikipedia:

Yali (Tamil: யாளி, IAST: Yāḷi),[1] also called Vyala,[2] is a Hindu mythological creature, portrayed with the head and the body of a lion, the trunk and the tusks of an elephant, and sometimes bearing equine features.[3]

That said, I know nothing about whether that fits with what we know about what figures are depicted in Balinese hinduism as it relates to the keris. I don't know if Yali's feature in Bali at all and I've never seen one being depicted on a keris, but again, I wouldn't know.

Whatever or whoever this figure is, as we've seen many times on this forum, in absence of glaringly obvious features or by-the-book details by a craftsman intending to do faithful depictions, it can be difficult and sometimes impossible to know for sure unless we ask the maker themselves.

Nevertheless I'm interested to see whether this can lead to a positive ID of this figure so that I may learn more about it.

Sources:
1. Wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yali_%28mythology
2. Wikicommons - https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...anthapuram.jpg

Yes as you question and Alan has pointed out, Hinduism is not necessarily the same in India as in Bali and i have yet to see images that depict this creature from Bali. But this does seem a good match.
I also agree with Alan that this keris is not super old, though i do suspect it is antique and if not than at least pre-WWII. Anthony, perhaps you can post the rest of the images of this keris so that people can get a better idea of it's over all appearance and possible age.

[A. G. Maisey]

For me, one very troubling feature of this keris is the obvious replacement of the gonjo.

The material used is not at all what I would expect to see in even a halfway competent restoration, it looks more like a deliberate attempt to deceive:-

old keris often have the gonjo replaced so let's make that replacement so obvious that even Blind Freddy cannot miss it; & they sure managed that:- spongy, half washed iron, deep acid aging.

Too, too obvious. But maybe only to somebody who has had close contact with the Shonky Boys in certain markets of Central & East Jawa.

But then again, I do tend to doubt almost everything.

It would be useful to see the entire blade & together with its dress.

[Anthony G.]

Hi All

rest of available photos, pics not mine and courtesy of the owner.

[A. G. Maisey]

Thank you Anthony.

That does not look like Bali to my eye, 35 conventional count luk?

Then the sogokan with luk?

Not a real good idea to diss Siwa. Not good at all.

come on --- pull the other one.

[David]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Then the sogokan with luk?

Not a real good idea to diss Siwa. Not good at all.

Valid point i had not considered.

[SidJ]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Thank you Anthony.

That does not look like Bali to my eye, 35 conventional count luk?

Then the sogokan with luk?

Not a real good idea to diss Siwa. Not good at all.

come on --- pull the other one.

Nice one Alan,
Possibly the punchiest and best comment I've read on this forum thus far! Yes, not a good plan to diss the Destroyer (or the Renovator as I prefer to refer to Lord Shiva) !

[A. G. Maisey]

So, if some of us can agree that perhaps a degree of wisdom was absent in whoever made this blade, is it possible that this blade was made by a person who respected Lord Siwa?