Am I Missing Something Here??

Robert · 8th July 2008, 03:56 AM

Just closed on ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA:IT&ih=002 Is there something special about this dagger that I don't know about?

If this is what these are going for now I'm rich!!!!

Robert

Lew · 8th July 2008, 04:12 AM

Rob

It's another case of someone with lots of $ to spend but not a whole lot of smarts when it comes to what to collect? $400 for a brass blade wow!

Lew

asomotif · 8th July 2008, 12:52 PM

Probably we are overlooking how special this blade is.

To some it may seem like a tourist item or letter opener

While in fact it is a bronze plug bayonet

Imagine, the bronze age and someone already created a plug bayonet

katana · 8th July 2008, 02:11 PM

Strange that two bidders were convinced of 'it's value'. Both seem avid collectors. Closer inspection of the dagger pictures suggests it is solidly constructed, the blade appears quite thick.

It does seem to have some age ,but the pictures are poor.

Perhaps a good weapon to use... in a warehouse full of magnets

If this is truly a weapon, then the reason for the use of bronze (brass, as stated in the listing) for the blade might help to ID. All I can suggest is religious reasons or a maritime use

Regards David

David · 8th July 2008, 02:26 PM

Weren't brass blades sometimes made to bypass magickal protections against iron?

Atlantia · 8th July 2008, 02:58 PM

It just looks llike a 1960s Indian paperknife?
The blade really IS brass!

Atlantia · 8th July 2008, 02:58 PM

Does anyone know either of the two high bidders?

archer · 8th July 2008, 07:29 PM

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=120278293669 I bid on this in the early stages for the punal. Is this the start of EBAY Fever Virus?
$380.00 for a punal is steep.

Steve

Ferguson · 8th July 2008, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by archer

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=120278293669 I bid on this in the early stages for the punal. Is this the start of EBAY Fever Virus?
$380.00 for a punal is steep.

Steve

I watched this one with some interest. To me, and it's only my opinion, the gunong in this one was fairly new and of lower quality. The koummiya scabbard looked touristy as well. But they're not my forte'.
Steve F

archer · 8th July 2008, 08:15 PM

Steve, It's time I learn the difference, would you mind explaining the fine points on Identification? I agree with your opinion on this bad marriage.

Steve

Rick · 8th July 2008, 11:02 PM

Somewhere P.T. Barnum is chuckling tonight .

kronckew · 9th July 2008, 12:19 AM

wiccans use brass or bronze blades to cut herbs and for other ritual uses that cold steel or iron would pollute. unless this is a well known religious item from some cult, and known to possess inherent magical essences, i think 400 is a bit steep. one can get a perfectly good bronze athame or sickle with a nice bog oak hilt for much less.

Robert · 10th July 2008, 05:02 AM

Thank you all for your response to this post. I have to agree with Katana that this does show age (late 19th to early 20th century) and I do think that it is an actual weapon and not just a letter opener or paper-knife. What surprised me was the price that it went for. David, I've tried to find any written evidence about magical protections of brass or copper blades but have had no luck as of now. If anyone has any information on this, please post. Thank you all again for you thoughts.

Robert

Atlantia · 10th July 2008, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Coleman

Thank you all for your response to this post. I have to agree with Katana that this does show age (late 19th to early 20th century) and I do think that it is an actual weapon and not just a letter opener or paper-knife. What surprised me was the price that it went for. David, I've tried to find any written evidence about magical protections of brass or copper blades but have had no luck as of now. If anyone has any information on this, please post. Thank you all again for you thoughts.

Robert

I dont think the brass/bronze looks to have much patination. A little, and some stains from having something spilt on it, but I don't get a feel of real age from it.
Has anyone contacted the two highest bidders and asked them to enlighten us?

katana · 10th July 2008, 04:53 PM

The thickness of the blade and the 'waves' are not ideal for a paperknife

There is evidence of 'oldish' damage to the tip of the blade...from legitimate use or abuse ...who knows.

The dagger, IMHO strongly suggests SEA origins, (or European (Spanish ?)made with SEA influences )

It is difficult to access patina when you 'lighten' (brightness, contrast etc) the quite dark 'listing' pictures. I was looking more at the wear and tear of the hilt which suggested to me 'some age'.

If this dagger is/was of some significance, it is likely the blade would have been kept relatively 'clean', ruining the chance of a reasonable patina to establish itself.

Although unconvinced that this dagger was worth the money, I would not be surprised if it does, indeed have ' monatary value'.... higher than the general concensus expressed.

Regards David

Robert · 10th July 2008, 11:13 PM

I would guess that this is of Philippine origin with strong Spanish influence and possible from Luzon. Too bad there was no scabbard or sheath with it as it would have been of great help in identifying its origin and actual age. One of the big problems with brass, bronze or copper blades is that if anyone cleans them it takes many years to develop any patina. I have one that was brought back from the Spanish American War that was cleaned (to death) by the seller because he thought it would help when he sold it.

Battara · 11th July 2008, 04:28 AM

If this is Filipino, then it is Ilocano which is in the northeast section of Luzon Island. They are the only ones known for their wavy blades outside of the Moros in the Philippines. This topic has been brought up before and one theory is that it is ceremonial in nature, perhaps even talismanic or anting-anting.

I hesitated getting involved in the discussion because the waves are a bit sharp for most Ilocano pieces (if I am viewing the pictures right) but right for athame pieces that are wiccan. Yet the crossguard looks Spanish-Filipino and it looks like carabao horn.

Would love to see some research on such pieces.

Robert · 11th July 2008, 06:52 AM

Hi Jose,
I was thinking the reason the waves looked a bit sharp was because of the angle the pictures were taken. Of coarse this is only an opinion. The only picture that is straight on is of the grip itself and shows little of the blade. I've been searching for information on brass and copper bladed knives from the Philippines since the first one I found and posted here on the forum. The main reason that I started this post was because of the extraordinary price that this one brought and thought that someone might be able to shed new light on the purpose or significance of this style of weapon.

Ferguson · 11th July 2008, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by archer

Steve, It's time I learn the difference, would you mind explaining the fine points on Identification? I agree with your opinion on this bad marriage.

Steve

My understanding is that Punal is a Spanish word meaning knife, and is used by the people in the north of the Philippines. Gunong is used for the daggers of the Muslim peoples of the south. I think.

Steve

8th July 2008, 03:56 AM	#1
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Am I Missing Something Here?? Just closed on ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA:IT&ih=002 Is there something special about this dagger that I don't know about? If this is what these are going for now I'm rich!!!! Robert

8th July 2008, 07:29 PM	#8
archer Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 373	Same Seller over the top sale http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=120278293669 I bid on this in the early stages for the punal. Is this the start of EBAY Fever Virus? $380.00 for a punal is steep. Steve

8th July 2008, 08:15 PM	#10
archer Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 373	Gunong/ Punal ???? Steve, It's time I learn the difference, would you mind explaining the fine points on Identification? I agree with your opinion on this bad marriage. Steve

8th July 2008, 04:12 AM	#2
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Rob It's another case of someone with lots of $ to spend but not a whole lot of smarts when it comes to what to collect? $400 for a brass blade wow! Lew

8th July 2008, 12:52 PM	#3
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,221	Probably we are overlooking how special this blade is. To some it may seem like a tourist item or letter opener While in fact it is a bronze plug bayonet Imagine, the bronze age and someone already created a plug bayonet

8th July 2008, 02:11 PM	#4
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Strange that two bidders were convinced of 'it's value'. Both seem avid collectors. Closer inspection of the dagger pictures suggests it is solidly constructed, the blade appears quite thick. It does seem to have some age ,but the pictures are poor. Perhaps a good weapon to use... in a warehouse full of magnets If this is truly a weapon, then the reason for the use of bronze (brass, as stated in the listing) for the blade might help to ID. All I can suggest is religious reasons or a maritime use Regards David

8th July 2008, 02:26 PM	#5
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,025	Weren't brass blades sometimes made to bypass magickal protections against iron?

8th July 2008, 02:58 PM	#6
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	It just looks llike a 1960s Indian paperknife? The blade really IS brass!

8th July 2008, 11:02 PM	#11
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,262	Somewhere P.T. Barnum is chuckling tonight .

9th July 2008, 12:19 AM	#12
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,150	wiccans use brass or bronze blades to cut herbs and for other ritual uses that cold steel or iron would pollute. unless this is a well known religious item from some cult, and known to possess inherent magical essences, i think 400 is a bit steep. one can get a perfectly good bronze athame or sickle with a nice bog oak hilt for much less.

10th July 2008, 05:02 AM	#13
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Thank you all for your response to this post. I have to agree with Katana that this does show age (late 19th to early 20th century) and I do think that it is an actual weapon and not just a letter opener or paper-knife. What surprised me was the price that it went for. David, I've tried to find any written evidence about magical protections of brass or copper blades but have had no luck as of now. If anyone has any information on this, please post. Thank you all again for you thoughts. Robert

10th July 2008, 04:53 PM	#15
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	The thickness of the blade and the 'waves' are not ideal for a paperknife There is evidence of 'oldish' damage to the tip of the blade...from legitimate use or abuse ...who knows. The dagger, IMHO strongly suggests SEA origins, (or European (Spanish ?)made with SEA influences ) It is difficult to access patina when you 'lighten' (brightness, contrast etc) the quite dark 'listing' pictures. I was looking more at the wear and tear of the hilt which suggested to me 'some age'. If this dagger is/was of some significance, it is likely the blade would have been kept relatively 'clean', ruining the chance of a reasonable patina to establish itself. Although unconvinced that this dagger was worth the money, I would not be surprised if it does, indeed have ' monatary value'.... higher than the general concensus expressed. Regards David

10th July 2008, 11:13 PM	#16
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	I would guess that this is of Philippine origin with strong Spanish influence and possible from Luzon. Too bad there was no scabbard or sheath with it as it would have been of great help in identifying its origin and actual age. One of the big problems with brass, bronze or copper blades is that if anyone cleans them it takes many years to develop any patina. I have one that was brought back from the Spanish American War that was cleaned (to death) by the seller because he thought it would help when he sold it.

11th July 2008, 04:28 AM	#17
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	If this is Filipino, then it is Ilocano which is in the northeast section of Luzon Island. They are the only ones known for their wavy blades outside of the Moros in the Philippines. This topic has been brought up before and one theory is that it is ceremonial in nature, perhaps even talismanic or anting-anting. I hesitated getting involved in the discussion because the waves are a bit sharp for most Ilocano pieces (if I am viewing the pictures right) but right for athame pieces that are wiccan. Yet the crossguard looks Spanish-Filipino and it looks like carabao horn. Would love to see some research on such pieces.

11th July 2008, 06:52 AM	#18
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Hi Jose, I was thinking the reason the waves looked a bit sharp was because of the angle the pictures were taken. Of coarse this is only an opinion. The only picture that is straight on is of the grip itself and shows little of the blade. I've been searching for information on brass and copper bladed knives from the Philippines since the first one I found and posted here on the forum. The main reason that I started this post was because of the extraordinary price that this one brought and thought that someone might be able to shed new light on the purpose or significance of this style of weapon.