Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons
User Name
Password
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 28th April 2019, 05:56 PM   #1
rickystl
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: St. Louis, MO area.
Posts: 1,440
Default Algerian Pistol - Sad Story with Happy Ending

Hello All.

Back Story: I won this pistol at auction late last year. The first two photos below shows how the pistol arrived after unpacking. Fortunately, the shipment was insured. So I took photos and gathered all the paperwork and evidence, and filed a claim with FED-X. A couple months later I finally received a phone call asking me to bring everything to one of their local branches. The adjuster was actually very nice and reasonable. While we both agreed the box itself could have been a bit better for shipping, it was packed well enough that it should have arrived unharmed. But he had to agree that at some point the box was sitting on one end and something heavy was dropped on it. There was no mistake about this with the evidence on the box. DARN. I really wanted this pistol but knew I would have to be satisfied just getting a refund for all/most of my cost. Then, the adjuster asked me what I think it would cost to repair the stock. And I said probably about half the cost or more of what I paid for it. And then the adjuster asked me something I was not ready for. He offered to refund about 2/3rds my cost - AND - I would keep the pistol !! And I agreed. Did not expect this at all.

Second Problem: There was wood missing from the lower rear lock area that had been painted/stained black so it did not show up well in the black and white auction photos. As well some of the silver stock decoration was missing around the lock and barrel tang area. Neither of these issues was disclosed in the auction description.

So, as you can imagine, I was very disappointed all around. I'll post Phase-II on the next post.

Rick
Attached Images
  
rickystl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th April 2019, 06:37 PM   #2
rickystl
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: St. Louis, MO area.
Posts: 1,440
Default

Hello Again.

Phase-II: Restoration begins..........
I sent the stock to be restored to fellow Forum member Philip Tom for repairs.
Philip restored the grip and trigger guard area as well as added the missing wood around the lock area. You cannot even tell any work was ever done !!
What a masterful job. (Thank You Philip!!!!).
While this was being done, I took the lock and let it soak in Krol Oil for a week. Then completely disassembled it and gave it a through cleaning with brushes and oil. The lock would not hold on full cock. But this was due to hardened dirt, grime, and even a trace of hardened black powder. The lock cleaned up well and functions well. Strong mainspring that still locks positively in both half and full cock notches. And a bit of a surprise that the cleaning exposed: Bot he tumbler and trigger bar (sear) have most of their fire blue finish still intact. Which makes me think that the entire lock may have originally been fire blued before the silver decoration was added. Hmmm. Anyway, very happy with the lock clean up.

When I originally sent the stock to Philip it still had the barrel intact. So after he sent it back to me I removed the barrel to clean it and discovered another issue. LOL There was a splice about 8" long down the center of the forend. DARN. I should have removed the barrel first before sending it to Philip. My bad. Philip could have fixed this also while the stock was there. There was no way to tell this without removing the barrel. Fortunately, it was a clean, lengthwise split and was easily glued together using ZAP Medium viscosity glue. Forend now holds firmly. All is good. Just have to re-assemble everything. I'll post pics of the finished gun next Post. Meantime, here is the cleaned up lock........

Rick

Rick
Attached Images
   
rickystl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th April 2019, 07:08 PM   #3
rickystl
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: St. Louis, MO area.
Posts: 1,440
Default

Now to post photos of the finished gun ready to join the collection....

The original auction description listed this pistol as Moroccan (which it could be). But from the beginning, I believed it was Algerian. (Philip Tom agreed with me). The silver decoration on the stock is done in a manner VERY similar to what you see on many Algerian long guns.
Before the auction, I also believed that both the lock and barrel were both European. The mechanicals of the lock are much better than the locally made Balkan style flintlocks. Even the threads on the screws are up to European snuff. Very high quality lock and functions perfect.
The barrel also looks to be of European manufacture with it's fluted area resembling Bresican barrels from the 17th Century. The barrel is 16.5" long and .54 caliber. The OAL of the pistol is 22.5" So it's a large example.

So in sum, I believe I have an Algerian pistol, assembled locally, using a high quality European (probably Italy) lock and barrel. Here are some pics of the finished gun. Photo heavy. What are others thoughts on the origin(s) of final assembly ? Thanks for viewing and any relies.

Rick
Attached Images
      
rickystl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th April 2019, 07:10 PM   #4
rickystl
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: St. Louis, MO area.
Posts: 1,440
Default

MORE PICS........
Attached Images
      
rickystl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th April 2019, 07:12 PM   #5
rickystl
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: St. Louis, MO area.
Posts: 1,440
Default

STILL MORE PICS........
Attached Images
      
rickystl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th April 2019, 07:13 PM   #6
rickystl
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: St. Louis, MO area.
Posts: 1,440
Default

LAST ONES.......
Attached Images
  
rickystl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th April 2019, 08:19 PM   #7
kahnjar1
Member
 
kahnjar1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND
Posts: 2,398
Thumbs up

Hi Rick,
Well the wait was worth it. The restoration work done is top notch IMHO, and you now have a beautiful pistol.
Question....those numbers on the barrel are much later and do not seem to "fit" with the pistol itself. Do you know if this gun spent any time in Ireland? as at one stage ALL guns had to be numbered in this manner, or is it an inventory number form some establishment?
Stu
kahnjar1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th April 2019, 08:45 PM   #8
rickystl
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: St. Louis, MO area.
Posts: 1,440
Default

Hi Stu

Thanks for the kind words. Philip and I were discussing this. We think this is some type of capture/rack/inventory number used by the French after their control of Algeria. Makes sense. I've seen these later numbers before on other Moroccan and Algerian guns. Much the same way the British did in later times to the Indian matchlocks that were still in use.

Rick
rickystl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th April 2019, 08:46 PM   #9
Kubur
Member
 
Kubur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,521
Default

Hi Rick

it's not a sad story, its a cool pistol and a very good repair.
Do you remember this post about the number?
http://vikingsword.com/vb/showthrea...algerian+pistol

congrats
Kubur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th April 2019, 10:00 PM   #10
thinreadline
Member
 
thinreadline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Wirral
Posts: 1,087
Default

fabulous repair work , what in the tailoring game they would call 'invisible mending' , the man is a genius !
thinreadline is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th April 2019, 12:06 AM   #11
Fernando K
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 524
Default

Hello

Only for one question. I do not see the line of separation between the barrel and the cylinder head bolt (tang)

That the numbers do not correspond to the make of the gun (nor with the time) has already been noted by another forista. I also think about it
Fernando K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th April 2019, 06:14 AM   #12
Philip
Member
 
Philip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: California
Posts: 506
Default

The lock sure looks better after you've de-gunked it! I like the economy version of the waterproof pan -- not as costly to make as the fancy London- or Paris style with the deep drainage gutters on either side, but I'm sure it worked well enough in Algeria which probably doesn't see a lot of rain. Speaking of which, what do you think of that frizzen face without scratches and impact marks? Doesn't look like this gun was fired much if at all, what do you think? Any significant ramrod wear at the muzzle?
Philip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th April 2019, 03:59 PM   #13
rickystl
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: St. Louis, MO area.
Posts: 1,440
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kubur
Hi Rick

it's not a sad story, its a cool pistol and a very good repair.
Do you remember this post about the number?
http://vikingsword.com/vb/showthrea...algerian+pistol

congrats

Hi Kubur

Thanks for your comments. YES, I now remember this Thread you posted. A somewhat similar barrel. I guess some of the Algerians liked long pistols. LOL
Similar numbers/letters on both barrels seems to confirm the French inventory theory. Note the size/style of the pistol in this photo.

Rick
Attached Images
 
rickystl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th April 2019, 04:05 PM   #14
rickystl
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: St. Louis, MO area.
Posts: 1,440
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fernando K
Hello

Only for one question. I do not see the line of separation between the barrel and the cylinder head bolt (tang)

That the numbers do not correspond to the make of the gun (nor with the time) has already been noted by another forista. I also think about it

Hi Fernando K

Good observation. The barrel and tang seem to have been forged in one piece with a separate plug forge welded and filed smooth (?) I did take pics of the barrel and forgot to post them here. They are on my other lap top computer at home. But will post them this week. Would like your opinion. Thanks.

Rick
rickystl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th April 2019, 04:30 PM   #15
rickystl
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: St. Louis, MO area.
Posts: 1,440
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip
The lock sure looks better after you've de-gunked it! I like the economy version of the waterproof pan -- not as costly to make as the fancy London- or Paris style with the deep drainage gutters on either side, but I'm sure it worked well enough in Algeria which probably doesn't see a lot of rain. Speaking of which, what do you think of that frizzen face without scratches and impact marks? Doesn't look like this gun was fired much if at all, what do you think? Any significant ramrod wear at the muzzle?

Hi Philip

Thanks again for the great workmanship. While the lock has a dark patina (if originally fire blued this would have turned a similar dark brownish color over time without oil) the lock shows little if any wear. Not only is there little evidence on the frizzen face, the tumbler and sear show almost no use.
The barrel is a different story. The bore is a bit rough with definite signs of ramrod wear and usage. Makes me wonder if the pistol started life with a different lock (?). But that would not surprise me with these guns.
The iron ramrod is only about 2/3rds the length of the barrel. Yet the stock had ramrod hole drilled the full length. But the mainspring of the lock interferes, not allowing a full length rod. I guess you could say this is typical Eastern type workmanship LOL So the ramrod would have to be considered "false". And in any case, it was probably loaded with a separate Suma rod.

Rick
rickystl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd May 2019, 02:57 PM   #16
rickystl
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: St. Louis, MO area.
Posts: 1,440
Default

Here are pics of the barrel. Can't quite figure this one out. Hmmm.

Rick
Attached Images
      
rickystl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd May 2019, 07:57 PM   #17
Fernando K
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 524
Default

Hello

Despite Ricky's good intentions you can not appreciate anything. It is also noteworthy that the ear is very advanced with respect to what is in spark weapons

Affectionately
Fernando K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd May 2019, 08:32 PM   #18
mross
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 406
Default

Based on your description of the piece upon inspection. It would not surprise me at all if the stock was already compromised and the bad handling exacerbated the problem.
mross is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th June 2019, 09:50 AM   #19
BANDOOK
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: AUCKLAND,NEW ZEALAND
Posts: 614
Default

Hello Ricky,lovely pistol and its amazing restoration you have done,am sure its from Algeria with the piece of Red coral on the butt

best regards
Rajesh
BANDOOK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th June 2019, 04:56 PM   #20
rickystl
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: St. Louis, MO area.
Posts: 1,440
Default

Hi Bandook!!

Thank you for the kind words. Yes, the pistol turned out nice. I'm actually considering having the small parts of silver missing replaced. I know who can do this work correctly, and reasonably. But haven't decided if it's worth the expense yet (?) Hmmm We shall see.

Rick
rickystl is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 11:47 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.