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Old 1st April 2015, 10:14 PM   #1
dana_w
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Default Help needed identifying a gun-maker, possibly French

I could use some help identifying the maker of a pair of flintlock pistols. They look French to me. The barrel and lock-plate are marked “Goyel A Brest”, but a lower cased “a” is used on the lock plate. Could this mean Goyel in Brest? I know there can be great variation in the spelling for surnames.

Thanks!
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Last edited by dana_w : 2nd April 2015 at 03:13 AM.
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Old 2nd April 2015, 10:20 AM   #2
Marcus den toom
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What about Goyet instead of Goyel?
My book by Johan f Stockel states there to be a Goyel in about 1690s. This pistol is not from that time but Goyel could have been working after this as well.
Brest is a city in France so "a Brest" is indeed the name where this person worked.

Style of this gun would be 1720s i think.
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Old 2nd April 2015, 01:50 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus den toom
What about Goyet instead of Goyel?
My book by Johan f Stockel states there to be a Goyel in about 1690s. This pistol is not from that time but Goyel could have been working after this as well.
Brest is a city in France so "a Brest" is indeed the name where this person worked.

Style of this gun would be 1720s i think.


Can you send me a scan of the page from Stockel? I think you are right about the date. It could be a little earlier or a later.

I was thinking the same thing about Brest France, but didn't know if "Goyel a Brest" was another way of saying "Goyel in Brest".
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Old 3rd April 2015, 02:16 PM   #4
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A gunmaker "Goyet à Brest" is unknown in the "New Stoeckel" and in the "le Qui est Qui de l'Arme en France". So I think that the statement in the older Stoeckel might be wrong!

The pistol is certainly made in the years about 1740. A pistol of very similar style made by Jean Giraud of St.Etienne in my collection is made in these years.
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Old 3rd April 2015, 07:06 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corrado26
A gunmaker "Goyet à Brest" is unknown in the "New Stoeckel" and in the "le Qui est Qui de l'Arme en France". So I think that the statement in the older Stoeckel might be wrong!

The pistol is certainly made in the years about 1740. A pistol of very similar style made by Jean Giraud of St.Etienne in my collection is made in these years.
corrado26



Thanks corrado26. That information is helpful. I don't know why, but I like to try and find information about a maker if I can.

Do you agree with Marcus den toom that the inscription should be read as "Goyel in Brest"?
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Old 3rd April 2015, 09:17 PM   #6
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Here is a photo of the pair together.

This photo is copyright (c) 2014 by Dana K. Williams. All Rights Are Reserved
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Old 4th April 2015, 09:55 AM   #7
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The shape of the lockplate of Dana's gun is still more curved in the traditional "banana" shape. This form was already obsolete in the 1730s. Also if i look closely at the name on the lockplate i would swear i see GoyeT with a t (or a l with a scratch trough it?)

This thread covers some of this as well.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=18292
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Old 4th April 2015, 06:42 PM   #8
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Beautiful guns. Are 18th century flintlocks typically safe for firing? I wouldn't mind acquiring one to harvest a whitetail doe at close range. I would of course do extensive research on load data first.
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Old 5th April 2015, 11:36 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dana_w

Do you agree with Marcus den toom that the inscription should be read as "Goyel in Brest"?



It is unimportant wether the name is "Goyet" or "Goyel", because none of these names is mentioned in the reference books. This will say but nothing, because lots of gunmakers whose names are to be found on guns or pistols are not documented in the "Neue Stöckel" or the "Le Qui est Qui".
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Old 5th April 2015, 05:53 PM   #10
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Hi Dana. Can't help with the ID, but I'm confident they are French and pre-1750. Notice the lack of pan-to-frizzen arm. Beautiful pair of early French pistols. So is your's Corrado26! Thanks for posting. Rick.
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Old 10th April 2015, 03:17 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corrado26
It is unimportant wether the name is "Goyet" or "Goyel", because none of these names is mentioned in the reference books. This will say but nothing, because lots of gunmakers whose names are to be found on guns or pistols are not documented in the "Neue Stöckel" or the "Le Qui est Qui".
corrado26


corrado26

Do you think their is any chance that the makers surname is Brest?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus den toom
The shape of the lockplate of Dana's gun is still more curved in the traditional "banana" shape. This form was already obsolete in the 1730s. Also if i look closely at the name on the lockplate i would swear i see GoyeT with a t (or a l with a scratch trough it?)


That could be Marcus den toom, but I don't think so. I'll post a closeup of the best lock plate in high contrast.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rickystl
Hi Dana. Can't help with the ID, but I'm confident they are French and pre-1750. Notice the lack of pan-to-frizzen arm. Beautiful pair of early French pistols. So is your's Corrado26! Thanks for posting. Rick.


Thanks Rick!
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Old 11th April 2015, 12:03 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dana_w
corrado26
Do you think their is any chance that the makers surname is Brest?


I've checked the books: No, there is no chance that the surname was "Brest". If "Brest" would be part of the surname than it should read "Goyet de Brest". Brest is definitely the French city where this gunmaker has been working.

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Old 11th April 2015, 01:04 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corrado26
If "Brest" would be part of the surname than it should read "Goyet de Brest". Brest is definitely the French city where this gunmaker has been working.


Thanks corrado26!
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Old 4th November 2019, 08:13 PM   #14
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A few more shots. I've almost given up finding the maker.
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Old 12th November 2019, 04:13 PM   #15
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Hugues Courant from the Municipal and Metropolitan Archives in Brest France recently responded to my request for information on the maker of these pistols. Although they have no specific information on a Goyel or Goyet arms manufacturer, they have 3 registers of congregations of inhabitants and craftsmen for the period. These registers have been scanned and are available on their website. Unfortunately, there is no alphabetical index, and I don't speak or read French.

https://archives.mairie-brest.fr/4D...tHH9/ILUMP10379

https://archives.mairie-brest.fr/4D...HH10/ILUMP10379

https://archives.mairie-brest.fr/4D...HH10/ILUMP10379

There is no entry for a Goyel or Goyet in Stockel or
Repertoire d arquebusiers et de fournisseurs français (The most complete existing reference of French armourers.)

Last edited by dana_w : 12th November 2019 at 08:19 PM.
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Old 12th November 2019, 08:03 PM   #16
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Websites not allowed to visit ? .
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Old 12th November 2019, 08:20 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fernando
Websites not allowed to visit ? .


It looks like cutting and pasting from the email didn't work. I've corrected the links. Please try them now.
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Old 13th November 2019, 11:22 AM   #18
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It takes some time to open ... but it works
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