Police Truncheons

son of oaf · 27th November 2008, 09:10 PM

Hi
I'm trying to research the classic vintage British Police Truncheon.
Made of Lignum Vitae.
I've been trying to find out standard clasifications, sizes and weights (if there were such things) and to find decent quality images...
Can anyne help with reference?
thanks in advance

Andy

Gavin Nugent · 27th November 2008, 09:19 PM

G'day Andy,

If I saw this posted 3 weeks ago I could have pointed you to a great auction in the UK with a few of these examples in it amongst about 60 other antique police truncheons. I don't buy them but still come across them, I'll send you a PM when I next see one.
Apart from that, I know the Brisbane police head quarters has a museum has examples of old trucheons and restricted weapons on display, have you tried police museums in larger citys in England?
Another suggestion that I have found very useful over the years is email larger museums too, they can provide a inventory list by email, you can then indicate which ones you would like to view, the curators are always very helpful and for the most part can arrange with some notice the oppurtunity to visit behind the scenes and handle inventory never seen on display. This will give you a chance to measure weigh and photograph all that you need.

regards

Gav

Jim McDougall · 28th November 2008, 05:29 AM

Hi Andy,
Now here is yet another intriguing and extremely esoteric sector of arms! the truncheon (aka billy club, baton, nightstick ) and I think Gav's advice is most well placed. Most police departments seem to have varying collections and groupings of memoribilia, including these weapons.

When I saw your post I recalled I had seen something on these long ago, and found in "Arms and Armor Annual" (ed. Robert Held, 1979) an article by Frederick Wilkinson, "William Parker and Parker Field, Gunmakers" (pp.275-282). While this title suggests guns, it includes certain other notes as these makers were major suppliers to the Constabulary in the 19th century. There are two truncheons specified on p.282:
1. truncheon of a Hatton Garden police officer, which is black with gold lettering, base of the grip stamped 'PARKER HOLBORN'. Length: 20.5"
2. truncheon of Metropolitan Police, finely painted with royal arms,
overall length: 12.5"
* it is noted this shorter type was carried by inspectors and plain
clothes detectives.
John Field, the partner, proposed in innovation idea for the leather case in which the truncheon carried attached to the belt until the 1860's. He put a leather covered spring in the bottom, which ejected the truncheon when the flap was opened, a 'quick draw truncheon' !!

Apparantly on late 19th century to early 20th c. the upper part of the stick was stamped with crown atop the letters 'CP' (=city police), often lower near the grip was a three digit badge number. Divisional letters were not used until after 1910.
The term 'billy club' was used about mid 19th century, with numerous ideas about its etymology. Some say it is actually 'bully' club, as British police were called by this term, one reference even suggests the Shakespearean term 'billets' used in context of beating ones brains out with billets. As is often the case, the true origin remains unclear.
In the 19th century, the Special Constable (SC) often was called in to assist regular officers, and these individuals often fashioned thier own sticks in the style of the regular form, and personally had them colorfully painted with arms etc. Other markings that might be found are SSD (= special or section sergeant and D= division) for example.

It seems many are painted black (a dated example from 1842, with narrow handle and leather lanyard is black with gold crown and VR cypher).
A British truncheon from 1930's is noted of lignum vitae (ironwood) as noted, but it is unclear from what I could find how commonly or how long this estremely hard wood was used. It is noted that these truncheons were about 1 1/4" in diameter and from 18 to 36" long. The longer ones were said to be called 'riot batons'.
Another note points out that red examples were traffic batons.

Just notes I could find online and in that article cited. It would be interesting to see some posts of examples of these, and as noted, some of the varying specifications.

Thank you for the interesting post!
All best regards,
Jim

son of oaf · 28th November 2008, 06:11 PM

thanks gents,
That's great.
I'm going to Leeds Armories next weekend to try and get permission to get a good look at the one in there collection.
From what i remember it's pretty cool.
I'm doing some digging to see if there is anywhere else in the UK i can try.
The more i look into this the more interested i become....

Jim McDougall · 28th November 2008, 09:15 PM

Sounds great Son ! It really is an interesting subject, and in all honesty, one I had never thought much on.....I like to see focus on any topic and learn as much as possible. Keep us posted OK?

Best,
Jim

Pukka Bundook · 5th December 2008, 02:24 PM

Hello Son!

No, this isn't your dad...
(But I might fit the description!....)
Am living in western Canada now, but used to live near Middlesbrough, and years and years ago, I saw the biggest display ever of truncheons at the museum in York.
I'm pretty sure it was York and the display was indeed huge, and ran from the Bowstreet runners 'clubs' up to modern times...(well, late 60's as it was at the time)
There were many as Jim has already described, but many earlier ones were rather horrific!
some were like a chair leg. (Might have been!) turned round where it was gripped, and dead square on the 'working end. Would really send the skin and hair flying!
Others were made from plaited rawhide, with a maybe an inch-and a half lead ball wrapped in the working bit....more like a small-headed indian war club.

Some appeared to be equally the results of spare time, and a fertile imagination, with the bottom line of being intended to Really Hurt, or put the lights out Very quickly.
I was imressed.
We did have one, belonged to an old relative. It was his dads.
It was approx. 18" long, turned handle, with turned ring at the end of the grip, for traction, the rest was straight sided, maybe 1 1/2" in diameter, with a hole bored down the centre and filled with a plug of lead.
Also had a leather loop for the wrist.

All the best Son!

Richard.

27th November 2008, 09:10 PM	#1
son of oaf Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Newcastle, UK Posts: 15	Police Truncheons Hi I'm trying to research the classic vintage British Police Truncheon. Made of Lignum Vitae. I've been trying to find out standard clasifications, sizes and weights (if there were such things) and to find decent quality images... Can anyne help with reference? thanks in advance Andy

27th November 2008, 09:19 PM	#2
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	bummer G'day Andy, If I saw this posted 3 weeks ago I could have pointed you to a great auction in the UK with a few of these examples in it amongst about 60 other antique police truncheons. I don't buy them but still come across them, I'll send you a PM when I next see one. Apart from that, I know the Brisbane police head quarters has a museum has examples of old trucheons and restricted weapons on display, have you tried police museums in larger citys in England? Another suggestion that I have found very useful over the years is email larger museums too, they can provide a inventory list by email, you can then indicate which ones you would like to view, the curators are always very helpful and for the most part can arrange with some notice the oppurtunity to visit behind the scenes and handle inventory never seen on display. This will give you a chance to measure weigh and photograph all that you need. regards Gav

28th November 2008, 05:29 AM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,753	Hi Andy, Now here is yet another intriguing and extremely esoteric sector of arms! the truncheon (aka billy club, baton, nightstick ) and I think Gav's advice is most well placed. Most police departments seem to have varying collections and groupings of memoribilia, including these weapons. When I saw your post I recalled I had seen something on these long ago, and found in "Arms and Armor Annual" (ed. Robert Held, 1979) an article by Frederick Wilkinson, "William Parker and Parker Field, Gunmakers" (pp.275-282). While this title suggests guns, it includes certain other notes as these makers were major suppliers to the Constabulary in the 19th century. There are two truncheons specified on p.282: 1. truncheon of a Hatton Garden police officer, which is black with gold lettering, base of the grip stamped 'PARKER HOLBORN'. Length: 20.5" 2. truncheon of Metropolitan Police, finely painted with royal arms, overall length: 12.5" * it is noted this shorter type was carried by inspectors and plain clothes detectives. John Field, the partner, proposed in innovation idea for the leather case in which the truncheon carried attached to the belt until the 1860's. He put a leather covered spring in the bottom, which ejected the truncheon when the flap was opened, a 'quick draw truncheon' !! Apparantly on late 19th century to early 20th c. the upper part of the stick was stamped with crown atop the letters 'CP' (=city police), often lower near the grip was a three digit badge number. Divisional letters were not used until after 1910. The term 'billy club' was used about mid 19th century, with numerous ideas about its etymology. Some say it is actually 'bully' club, as British police were called by this term, one reference even suggests the Shakespearean term 'billets' used in context of beating ones brains out with billets. As is often the case, the true origin remains unclear. In the 19th century, the Special Constable (SC) often was called in to assist regular officers, and these individuals often fashioned thier own sticks in the style of the regular form, and personally had them colorfully painted with arms etc. Other markings that might be found are SSD (= special or section sergeant and D= division) for example. It seems many are painted black (a dated example from 1842, with narrow handle and leather lanyard is black with gold crown and VR cypher). A British truncheon from 1930's is noted of lignum vitae (ironwood) as noted, but it is unclear from what I could find how commonly or how long this estremely hard wood was used. It is noted that these truncheons were about 1 1/4" in diameter and from 18 to 36" long. The longer ones were said to be called 'riot batons'. Another note points out that red examples were traffic batons. Just notes I could find online and in that article cited. It would be interesting to see some posts of examples of these, and as noted, some of the varying specifications. Thank you for the interesting post! All best regards, Jim

28th November 2008, 06:11 PM	#4
son of oaf Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Newcastle, UK Posts: 15	thanks gents, That's great. I'm going to Leeds Armories next weekend to try and get permission to get a good look at the one in there collection. From what i remember it's pretty cool. I'm doing some digging to see if there is anywhere else in the UK i can try. The more i look into this the more interested i become....

28th November 2008, 09:15 PM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,753	Sounds great Son ! It really is an interesting subject, and in all honesty, one I had never thought much on.....I like to see focus on any topic and learn as much as possible. Keep us posted OK? Best, Jim

5th December 2008, 02:24 PM	#6
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Hello Son! No, this isn't your dad... (But I might fit the description!....) Am living in western Canada now, but used to live near Middlesbrough, and years and years ago, I saw the biggest display ever of truncheons at the museum in York. I'm pretty sure it was York and the display was indeed huge, and ran from the Bowstreet runners 'clubs' up to modern times...(well, late 60's as it was at the time) There were many as Jim has already described, but many earlier ones were rather horrific! some were like a chair leg. (Might have been!) turned round where it was gripped, and dead square on the 'working end. Would really send the skin and hair flying! Others were made from plaited rawhide, with a maybe an inch-and a half lead ball wrapped in the working bit....more like a small-headed indian war club. Some appeared to be equally the results of spare time, and a fertile imagination, with the bottom line of being intended to Really Hurt, or put the lights out Very quickly. I was imressed. We did have one, belonged to an old relative. It was his dads. It was approx. 18" long, turned handle, with turned ring at the end of the grip, for traction, the rest was straight sided, maybe 1 1/2" in diameter, with a hole bored down the centre and filled with a plug of lead. Also had a leather loop for the wrist. All the best Son! Richard.