Moro Ivory Kampilan

Battara · 21st November 2007, 01:43 AM

Greetings Friendly Fellow Formites!

I thought I would share a new acquisition - an ivory kampilan!

Blade - not laminated but solid and the tip of the spikelet was broken off. The crossguard is a hollow elephant tusk with a silver staple. The pommel is solid ivory with US-PI coins for eyes (1944 and 1918). Between the pommel and crossguard is a grip made of alternating bands of silver and okir copper-silver alloy bands (I already tested all the metals). The scabbard is open on one side and carved all the way down on one side (though warped). On the top of the pommel is what I believe is boar hair. The mansala looks Maguindanao to me even though the kampilan looks Maranao -

Ian is of the opinion that the coins and the grip are later than the rest of the piece. I am inclined to agree with him. In fact, I believe that the original grip may have been silver or even swaasa.

Any additional information that can help me is very welcome. Enjoy!

Ferguson · 21st November 2007, 02:34 AM

No information from me. I just wanted to say how happy I am for you! Wonderful sword.

Steve

Robert · 21st November 2007, 02:45 AM

This is so way way beyond being a nice puppy. Congratulations!!! This is absolutely beautiful!!!

Robert

rand · 21st November 2007, 04:32 AM

What a great sword.... Sacre Blu!!!! Tell us the story of how you managed to find it......

rand

Bill M · 21st November 2007, 09:10 AM

Very nice, Jose. Congrats!

VANDOO · 21st November 2007, 05:35 PM

CONGRADULATIONS JOSE!!
THE FIND OF A LIFETIME PERHAPS THERE IS STILL HOPE I CAN FIND ONE I CAN AFFORD SOMEDAY

. I HAVE HAD NO LUCK FINDING ONE WITH CARVED WHALE BONE OR IVORY THESE MANY YEARS, YOU ARE A LUCKY MAN

NOW I MUST STOP AND CLEAN THE DROOL OFF MY KEYBOARD

Battara · 21st November 2007, 05:53 PM

Thank you folks!

Well the story......I had been eye balling and dreaming for a couple of years of getting this on a particular website (I usually don't give out where I got something unless it is from a formite). Then I felt God telling me to contact the owner and negotiate (yes, I pray over my weaponry, ask Rsword) - he was willing. After that, Rsword got me in contact with a fellow formite who was interested in 2 pieces I had - I sold them (sadly but at least they are in good hands

) and thus had the money to afford this puppy.

This is the one that is also featured on Federico's website "Moro Swords". I have only seen pictures of one other ivory kamp and that is in the Philippine National Museum once belonging to a sultan/datu. That one has 22k gold okir bands on the grip and 22k gold okir eyes. It is officially a national treasure of the Philippines.

The one I have now is the second I have ever seen. Very pleased, although as Vandoo once put it, it will be "beans and rice" for a while again.

I will try to bring my new friend to Timonium.

CharlesS · 21st November 2007, 08:46 PM

Fine! Beautiful!! GORgeez even!!! Congrats, Jose!

Tim Simmons · 22nd November 2007, 07:15 AM

Oh no you do not want this, its all wrong. It's got a horrible wood thingy, I believe they are called "Scabbards" ?

Bill M · 22nd November 2007, 07:21 AM

Gorgeous, Jose! Congrats and couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

wilked aka Khun Deng · 23rd November 2007, 10:37 AM

Jose, this is a fabulous acquistion. I showed the pictures to a couple of the older Muslim soldiers I work with here and they both agreed only a Sultan would carry a blade like that (or maybe a Datu that wanted to be).

Does it make you feel humbled in Its presence - I know I would be.

Dan

kino · 23rd November 2007, 02:53 PM

It's a nice one. I also have been eyeballin this in Bill's website for quite a while.

Boars hair???, isn't that sacrilegious??

Bill M · 23rd November 2007, 04:16 PM

Yeah, I looked at it also when we were in San Francisco. Nice piece. Was trying to make up my mind. Since I missed it, very glad that you were the one to get it.

Battara · 24th November 2007, 07:33 PM

Many thanks folks -

Sultan's piece - I wondered. Thank you Wilked for sharing this with your friends....

Kino - I have seen boar's hair on many PI pieces, though you may still have a point (like the one on my head

) - this may require more research and inquiry....

Bill - thank you - this was one that I thought I would never be able to afford, until I sold some of my collection off...

This was the better choice..

Bill M · 24th November 2007, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

M
Bill - thank you - this was one that I thought I would never be able to afford, until I sold some of my collection off...

This was the better choice..

Better than "better." Call it BEST!

Ian · 26th November 2007, 06:11 PM

As Battara mentioned, he and I had a chance to discuss this beautiful sword before he took the plunge and purchased it for a substantial amount.

Like Dan W., I felt it was probably a piece from a Sultan's collection. The only similar kampilan I have seen is in the the Philippines National Museum (a picture apears in Cato of that particular sword), and Battara's kampilan is no less impressive than the national treasure in Manila that came from the Lake Lanao region of Mindanao (a Maranao area).

It was my strong suggestion to Battara that he do whatever it took to acquire this sword, as he would likely never have another opportunity to own such a magnificant piece. Perhaps my pleading had nothing to do with the outcome, but I am delighted that he went ahead and secured it. IMO this is a 19th C. kampilan that was refitted with a new handle and ornaments in the mid-20th C.

This would have made a magnificent "bearing sword" carried by a member of the Sultan's/Datu's court during official events. A symbol of great wealth and prestige. I hope that one day Battara will discover its distinguished former owner.

Congrats again, my friend, on a wonderful buy.

Ian.

Lew · 26th November 2007, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

As Battara mentioned, he and I had a chance to discuss this beautiful sword before he took the plunge and purchased it for a substantial amount.

Ian.

Hey Battara since you had to sell your house to buy the sword you should not be too upset I can put you up in my house for a while but you will have to let me hang the sword up during your stay

I agree that is a national treasure and I am happy for you.Thanks for sharing.

Lew

Battara · 27th November 2007, 01:53 AM

Thanks Louis - I may have to take you up on that.

I am pleased that this may have belonged to a sultan. Unfortunately the previous owner and the owner before that did not know where it came from.

Again, thank you Ian - this was my Christmas present to me.

carlos · 27th November 2007, 03:24 PM

VERY VERY NICE!!! IS PERFECT!! YOU ARE A LUCKY MAN, CONGRATULATIONS!!!
BEST REGARDS
CARLOS

Battara · 30th November 2007, 09:23 PM

Thank you Carlos.....

2 new things:

1. I have compared the cloth mansala to similar pieces in The Rainbow'w Varied Hue and have thus determined that the cloth is in fact Maranao (not Maguindanao).

2. Here is a picture of the hilt of the ivory and 22k kampilan mentioned in Cato that belonged to a sultan/dato (the name escapes me know) and is designated a "national treasure". The picture comes from Treasures of the Philippine National Museum.

kai · 30th November 2007, 11:02 PM

A stunning kampilan, Jose - congrats!

I especially like the carving work on the pommel. Also, the blade looks really promising!

BTW, the other ivory kampilan was owned/inherited by Datu Natangcup from Lanao.

Regards,
Kai

Andrew · 1st December 2007, 03:21 AM

Congratulations, Jose. I'm really happy for you.

Forgive my ignorance, but are kampilans not typically laminated or patterned? I would think such a fine weapon would have a fancy blade?

DaveS · 1st December 2007, 04:17 AM

Jose: Great looking camp. These are getting so hard to find. Hope you didn't get to far in hock to be able to grab it. I got another one a few months back with short hair tufts like yours, but it is the normal horsehair. My blade is also not laminated and i think the handle is also a late forties replacement but looks pretty much like yours. Btw, i think there is also another ivory handled campilon in the San Francico area. I think it is also older than ours. I'm going to check in a few weeks to see if he still has it. Who knows? Maybe he might do a trade............Dave.

Battara · 1st December 2007, 06:04 PM

Thank you folks.....

Andrew - I may re-repolish and re-re-etch again later to see if a pattern comes out. Sometimes the money was spent on the hilt and less on the blades.....

Dave - you go for it and post some pictures.

Good luck.

VVV · 2nd December 2007, 03:58 PM

A bit late but congratulations to a fantastic kampilan!

Michael

Flavio · 27th January 2008, 11:17 AM

Maybe it's too late... but I see this thread only now....

a GREAT piece for a GREAT guy!!!! Congratulations dear Jose

Battara · 27th January 2008, 08:57 PM

Thank you Flavio and VVV. I am going to repolish and re-etch again to find the missing lamination.

21st November 2007, 01:43 AM	#1
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	Moro Ivory Kampilan Greetings Friendly Fellow Formites! I thought I would share a new acquisition - an ivory kampilan! Blade - not laminated but solid and the tip of the spikelet was broken off. The crossguard is a hollow elephant tusk with a silver staple. The pommel is solid ivory with US-PI coins for eyes (1944 and 1918). Between the pommel and crossguard is a grip made of alternating bands of silver and okir copper-silver alloy bands (I already tested all the metals). The scabbard is open on one side and carved all the way down on one side (though warped). On the top of the pommel is what I believe is boar hair. The mansala looks Maguindanao to me even though the kampilan looks Maranao - Ian is of the opinion that the coins and the grip are later than the rest of the piece. I am inclined to agree with him. In fact, I believe that the original grip may have been silver or even swaasa. Any additional information that can help me is very welcome. Enjoy! Attached Images

21st November 2007, 04:32 AM	#4
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 538	Sacre Blu!!!! What a great sword.... Sacre Blu!!!! Tell us the story of how you managed to find it...... rand

26th November 2007, 06:11 PM	#16
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,028	Nicer than nice ... As Battara mentioned, he and I had a chance to discuss this beautiful sword before he took the plunge and purchased it for a substantial amount. Like Dan W., I felt it was probably a piece from a Sultan's collection. The only similar kampilan I have seen is in the the Philippines National Museum (a picture apears in Cato of that particular sword), and Battara's kampilan is no less impressive than the national treasure in Manila that came from the Lake Lanao region of Mindanao (a Maranao area). It was my strong suggestion to Battara that he do whatever it took to acquire this sword, as he would likely never have another opportunity to own such a magnificant piece. Perhaps my pleading had nothing to do with the outcome, but I am delighted that he went ahead and secured it. IMO this is a 19th C. kampilan that was refitted with a new handle and ornaments in the mid-20th C. This would have made a magnificent "bearing sword" carried by a member of the Sultan's/Datu's court during official events. A symbol of great wealth and prestige. I hope that one day Battara will discover its distinguished former owner. Congrats again, my friend, on a wonderful buy. Ian.

27th November 2007, 03:24 PM	#19
carlos Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 731	AAHAHAHAH!!! VERY VERY NICE!!! IS PERFECT!! YOU ARE A LUCKY MAN, CONGRATULATIONS!!! BEST REGARDS CARLOS

30th November 2007, 09:23 PM	#20
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	Thank you Carlos..... 2 new things: 1. I have compared the cloth mansala to similar pieces in The Rainbow'w Varied Hue and have thus determined that the cloth is in fact Maranao (not Maguindanao). 2. Here is a picture of the hilt of the ivory and 22k kampilan mentioned in Cato that belonged to a sultan/dato (the name escapes me know) and is designated a "national treasure". The picture comes from Treasures of the Philippine National Museum. Attached Images

21st November 2007, 02:34 AM	#2
Ferguson Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kernersville, NC, USA Posts: 793	No information from me. I just wanted to say how happy I am for you! Wonderful sword. Steve

21st November 2007, 02:45 AM	#3
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	This is so way way beyond being a nice puppy. Congratulations!!! This is absolutely beautiful!!! Robert

21st November 2007, 09:10 AM	#5
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	Very nice, Jose. Congrats!

21st November 2007, 05:35 PM	#6
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	CONGRADULATIONS JOSE!! THE FIND OF A LIFETIME PERHAPS THERE IS STILL HOPE I CAN FIND ONE I CAN AFFORD SOMEDAY . I HAVE HAD NO LUCK FINDING ONE WITH CARVED WHALE BONE OR IVORY THESE MANY YEARS, YOU ARE A LUCKY MAN NOW I MUST STOP AND CLEAN THE DROOL OFF MY KEYBOARD

21st November 2007, 05:53 PM	#7
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	Thank you folks! Well the story......I had been eye balling and dreaming for a couple of years of getting this on a particular website (I usually don't give out where I got something unless it is from a formite). Then I felt God telling me to contact the owner and negotiate (yes, I pray over my weaponry, ask Rsword) - he was willing. After that, Rsword got me in contact with a fellow formite who was interested in 2 pieces I had - I sold them (sadly but at least they are in good hands ) and thus had the money to afford this puppy. This is the one that is also featured on Federico's website "Moro Swords". I have only seen pictures of one other ivory kamp and that is in the Philippine National Museum once belonging to a sultan/datu. That one has 22k gold okir bands on the grip and 22k gold okir eyes. It is officially a national treasure of the Philippines. The one I have now is the second I have ever seen. Very pleased, although as Vandoo once put it, it will be "beans and rice" for a while again. I will try to bring my new friend to Timonium.

21st November 2007, 08:46 PM	#8
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,855	Fine! Beautiful!! GORgeez even!!! Congrats, Jose!

22nd November 2007, 07:15 AM	#9
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	Oh no you do not want this, its all wrong. It's got a horrible wood thingy, I believe they are called "Scabbards" ?

22nd November 2007, 07:21 AM	#10
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	Gorgeous, Jose! Congrats and couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

23rd November 2007, 10:37 AM	#11
wilked aka Khun Deng Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Oahu, Hawaii Posts: 166	Jose, this is a fabulous acquistion. I showed the pictures to a couple of the older Muslim soldiers I work with here and they both agreed only a Sultan would carry a blade like that (or maybe a Datu that wanted to be). Does it make you feel humbled in Its presence - I know I would be. Dan

23rd November 2007, 02:53 PM	#12
kino Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 973	It's a nice one. I also have been eyeballin this in Bill's website for quite a while. Boars hair???, isn't that sacrilegious??

23rd November 2007, 04:16 PM	#13
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	Yeah, I looked at it also when we were in San Francisco. Nice piece. Was trying to make up my mind. Since I missed it, very glad that you were the one to get it.

24th November 2007, 07:33 PM	#14
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	Many thanks folks - Sultan's piece - I wondered. Thank you Wilked for sharing this with your friends.... Kino - I have seen boar's hair on many PI pieces, though you may still have a point (like the one on my head ) - this may require more research and inquiry.... Bill - thank you - this was one that I thought I would never be able to afford, until I sold some of my collection off... This was the better choice..

27th November 2007, 01:53 AM	#18
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	Thanks Louis - I may have to take you up on that. I am pleased that this may have belonged to a sultan. Unfortunately the previous owner and the owner before that did not know where it came from. Again, thank you Ian - this was my Christmas present to me.

30th November 2007, 11:02 PM	#21
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,215	A stunning kampilan, Jose - congrats! I especially like the carving work on the pommel. Also, the blade looks really promising! BTW, the other ivory kampilan was owned/inherited by Datu Natangcup from Lanao. Regards, Kai

1st December 2007, 03:21 AM	#22
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	Congratulations, Jose. I'm really happy for you. Forgive my ignorance, but are kampilans not typically laminated or patterned? I would think such a fine weapon would have a fancy blade?

1st December 2007, 04:17 AM	#23
DaveS Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 327	Jose: Great looking camp. These are getting so hard to find. Hope you didn't get to far in hock to be able to grab it. I got another one a few months back with short hair tufts like yours, but it is the normal horsehair. My blade is also not laminated and i think the handle is also a late forties replacement but looks pretty much like yours. Btw, i think there is also another ivory handled campilon in the San Francico area. I think it is also older than ours. I'm going to check in a few weeks to see if he still has it. Who knows? Maybe he might do a trade............Dave.

1st December 2007, 06:04 PM	#24
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	Thank you folks..... Andrew - I may re-repolish and re-re-etch again later to see if a pattern comes out. Sometimes the money was spent on the hilt and less on the blades..... Dave - you go for it and post some pictures. Good luck.

2nd December 2007, 03:58 PM	#25
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	A bit late but congratulations to a fantastic kampilan! Michael

27th January 2008, 11:17 AM	#26
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Maybe it's too late... but I see this thread only now.... a GREAT piece for a GREAT guy!!!! Congratulations dear Jose

27th January 2008, 08:57 PM	#27
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	Thank you Flavio and VVV. I am going to repolish and re-etch again to find the missing lamination.