Spanish Pistol ID

rickystl · 23rd March 2013, 08:08 PM

Hello everyone. I've been away from the Forum for a while now. There are many gun posts I need to catch up with. And a number of posts I need to make.

Meantime, I am trying to help a collector associate. Here are a pair of Spanish (?) pistols he owns. Possibly Portuguese? we are trying to locate the origin of this mark on the barrel and tang. James Lavin's book on Spanish firearms does not list it. The anchor would seem to indicate Navel use (?) My guess as to a date would be between 1770 and 1810. But the Spanish returned to the miquelet style lock around 1790.
Any help with I.D. and barrel mark much appreciated. Thanks, Rick.

rickystl · 23rd March 2013, 08:10 PM

By the way. The stamp is an anchor under a crown.

kahnjar1 · 24th March 2013, 12:33 AM

Hi Rick,
I have checked thru my books on Proof marks and can not locate this particular one. It COULD be some sort of Armoury mark. Are there any marks UNDER the barrels?
Both the pistols have belt hooks so COULD be for naval use but then some land use pistols also had belt hooks.
Stu

fernando · 24th March 2013, 11:58 AM

Try checking on Spanish Navy pistol circa 1780. French style conventional lock, 15 caliber (19 m/m). Barrel length 21,1 cms. The initial A stands for Armada (same as Marina = Navy).
J.L. Calvó Pascual ARMAMENTO ESPAÑOL DE LA GUERRA DE LA INDEPENDENCIA. Page 42 image #25.

rickystl · 24th March 2013, 04:59 PM

Hi Kahnjar. Thanks for checking. Rick.

rickystl · 24th March 2013, 05:11 PM

Hi Fernando! Thanks for the info. With the anchor under a crown, and the letter A meaning Armada, it appears the pistols were made for Navel use.
The pistols do look Spanish military. Thanks again. Rick.

M ELEY · 25th March 2013, 03:10 AM

Wow! Very nice and green with envy! Love the naval stuff. The naval types typically have the belt loop/hook, as these do.

Fernando K · 25th March 2013, 09:44 PM

Hello:

Only for appreciation: the belt hook was a Spanish arms custom, both civilian and military. For example, numerous copies of Ripoll.

Affectionately. Fernando K

.

rickystl · 26th March 2013, 11:57 PM

Thanks Fernando K. I'm beginning to think the it is an Armoury or City mark. Thanks for everyones help. Rick.

fernando · 30th March 2013, 02:51 PM

I guess you misunderstood Fernando K, Rick.
He meant to say that belthooks were common in both Spanish civilian and military pistols and not that the pistols you posted were not military.
Attached are pictures of the ID i provided. I realize there are no doubts when you compare both image and data.

.

rickystl · 31st March 2013, 04:00 AM

Hi Fernando! No, I did not misunderstand Fernando K's response. I just did not respond to the belt hook. Which, now that I look at it, makes my response look awkward.

It is interesting that the belt hook maintained such a large popularity in Spain through the 1800's. Even on short carbines. You see these on so many Spanish firearms.
Thank you for the attachment!! That is most helpful. Rick.

rickystl · 31st March 2013, 04:05 PM

Fernando: The owner of the pistols asked me to extend to you his appreciation for this attachment you provided. It is much appreciated. Rick.

fernando · 31st March 2013, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickystl

Fernando: The owner of the pistols asked me to extend to you his appreciation for this attachment you provided. It is much appreciated. Rick.

It's nice being useful

rickystl · 3rd April 2013, 11:24 AM

Hi Fernando. Just out of curiosity, could you tell me what reference material you used for the above attachment? Thanks, Rick.

fernando · 3rd April 2013, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickystl

Hi Fernando. Just out of curiosity, could you tell me what reference material you used for the above attachment? Thanks, Rick.

Read my post #4.
I had the privilege to have been offered a copy signed by the author. He was a documentalist in the arms museum situated in the Barcelona Montejuic Castle, which is now dismantled ... unfortunately

rickystl · 5th April 2013, 01:19 AM

THANK YOU!! Rick.

23rd March 2013, 08:08 PM	#1
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,621	Spanish Pistol ID Hello everyone. I've been away from the Forum for a while now. There are many gun posts I need to catch up with. And a number of posts I need to make. Meantime, I am trying to help a collector associate. Here are a pair of Spanish (?) pistols he owns. Possibly Portuguese? we are trying to locate the origin of this mark on the barrel and tang. James Lavin's book on Spanish firearms does not list it. The anchor would seem to indicate Navel use (?) My guess as to a date would be between 1770 and 1810. But the Spanish returned to the miquelet style lock around 1790. Any help with I.D. and barrel mark much appreciated. Thanks, Rick. Attached Images

24th March 2013, 12:33 AM	#3
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,728	Hi Rick, I have checked thru my books on Proof marks and can not locate this particular one. It COULD be some sort of Armoury mark. Are there any marks UNDER the barrels? Both the pistols have belt hooks so COULD be for naval use but then some land use pistols also had belt hooks. Stu Last edited by kahnjar1; 24th March 2013 at 02:28 AM.

25th March 2013, 09:44 PM	#8
Fernando K Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 663	Hello: Only for appreciation: the belt hook was a Spanish arms custom, both civilian and military. For example, numerous copies of Ripoll. Affectionately. Fernando K . Last edited by fernando; 25th March 2013 at 09:55 PM.

30th March 2013, 02:51 PM	#10
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,638	I guess you misunderstood Fernando K, Rick. He meant to say that belthooks were common in both Spanish civilian and military pistols and not that the pistols you posted were not military. Attached are pictures of the ID i provided. I realize there are no doubts when you compare both image and data. . Attached Images

23rd March 2013, 08:10 PM	#2
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,621	By the way. The stamp is an anchor under a crown.

24th March 2013, 11:58 AM	#4
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,638	Try checking on Spanish Navy pistol circa 1780. French style conventional lock, 15 caliber (19 m/m). Barrel length 21,1 cms. The initial A stands for Armada (same as Marina = Navy). J.L. Calvó Pascual ARMAMENTO ESPAÑOL DE LA GUERRA DE LA INDEPENDENCIA. Page 42 image #25.

24th March 2013, 04:59 PM	#5
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,621	Hi Kahnjar. Thanks for checking. Rick.

24th March 2013, 05:11 PM	#6
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,621	Hi Fernando! Thanks for the info. With the anchor under a crown, and the letter A meaning Armada, it appears the pistols were made for Navel use. The pistols do look Spanish military. Thanks again. Rick.

25th March 2013, 03:10 AM	#7
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,066	Wow! Very nice and green with envy! Love the naval stuff. The naval types typically have the belt loop/hook, as these do.

26th March 2013, 11:57 PM	#9
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,621	Thanks Fernando K. I'm beginning to think the it is an Armoury or City mark. Thanks for everyones help. Rick.

31st March 2013, 04:00 AM	#11
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,621	Hi Fernando! No, I did not misunderstand Fernando K's response. I just did not respond to the belt hook. Which, now that I look at it, makes my response look awkward. It is interesting that the belt hook maintained such a large popularity in Spain through the 1800's. Even on short carbines. You see these on so many Spanish firearms. Thank you for the attachment!! That is most helpful. Rick.

31st March 2013, 04:05 PM	#12
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,621	Fernando: The owner of the pistols asked me to extend to you his appreciation for this attachment you provided. It is much appreciated. Rick.

3rd April 2013, 11:24 AM	#14
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,621	Hi Fernando. Just out of curiosity, could you tell me what reference material you used for the above attachment? Thanks, Rick.

5th April 2013, 01:19 AM	#16
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,621	THANK YOU!! Rick.