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3rd August 2011, 07:46 PM
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#211 |
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(deceased)
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Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
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Hi Thilo,
You are certainly right about the young people copying the swords without any 'dark' intention. The problem is the dealer who lends them the 'original' pieces and thereby makes them get 'copied after an original'. The 'original' items are fakes themselves, though, and by this method get copied on and on, spoiling peoples' minds. Best, Michael Last edited by Matchlock; 3rd August 2011 at 08:03 PM. |
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5th August 2011, 07:34 PM
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#212 | |
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(deceased)
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Quote:
Hi Thilo, Thank you for pointing out this valuable link! As it is much preferred on our forum to post pictures instead of posting links, I am going to publish a selection of Hans Lehküchner, Kunst des Messerfechtens (CGM 582), 1482. Please note the birds' head shaped pommels (Vogelkopfknauf) as well as the single edged blades with their tips sharpened on both egdes. Best, Michael Last edited by Matchlock; 5th August 2011 at 08:23 PM. |
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5th August 2011, 08:25 PM
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#213 |
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(deceased)
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The rest.
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6th August 2011, 09:15 AM
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#214 |
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Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,057
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Hi Gentlemen,
very nice, this is another type of messer, more of the "Hauswehr" type, with shorter quards and characteristic "Parierdorn". best regards Jasper |
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6th August 2011, 09:13 PM
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#215 |
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 41
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Hi Jasper!
Do you have any measurements for that nice messer? Is it your's? How old is it? /Micke D |
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7th August 2011, 12:37 PM
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#216 |
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(deceased)
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Right, Jasper,
It's a so called Seiten- or Hauswehr, tool and weapon in one. The grips and hollow rivets seem to be new. Best, Michael |
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9th August 2011, 08:41 PM
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#217 | |
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(deceased)
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Quote:
Hi Micke D, All I can say is that I would date Jasper's Messer to ca. 1490-1400, and that is exactly the period this thread is all about, the high time of the Landsknechte. The short and heavily swamped quillons are characteristic for the Late Gothic stylistic period. A very nice and nearly identical Messer or Seitenwehr is illustrated in Johann von Schwarzenberg's Die Bambergische Peinliche Halsgerichtsordnung (Constitutio Criminalis Bambergensis) of 1507. This illustration was originally posted by our member Samik earlier in this thread. I am sure Jasper will give you the measurements you required. Best, Michael Last edited by Matchlock; 9th August 2011 at 10:13 PM. |
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9th August 2011, 09:40 PM
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#218 |
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(deceased)
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Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
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From the Collection of the Museo Poldi Pezzoli, Milano
Let's start with a really great two hand sword (spadone a due mani) with richly fullered blade, Veneto, ca. 1510, overall length 1,73 m.
Next in line is another, the hilt Venetian, the blade German, ca. 1535-40, overall length 1,53 m. Then there is another, Italy, ca. 1560, oa. length 1,505 m. The fourth item was made in Venetia using a German blade, ca. 1565, oa. length 1,38 m, a piece from the end of the period of Landsknechte. So far for the great swords. There is also a fine Landsknecht hand and a half sword with a single edged blade, South German or Swiss, ca. 1560, oa. length 1,28 m. Please note the perfectly original black and blueish colors of the hilt! And, last not least, a fine South German or Swiss Katzbalger-Degen, the fine blackened hilt and Brezel-quillons characteristic of the 1540s; oa. length 1,05 m. The grip wire binding including the Turk's heads is a later alteration. Best, Michael Last edited by Matchlock; 10th August 2011 at 02:05 AM. |
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11th August 2011, 03:33 PM
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#219 | |
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Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,057
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Quote:
this one is not my property but I do have the measurements for you. allover length = 49.0 cm, cross-width = 10 cm Blade: length = 36.5 cm, width = 3.8 cm weight: 502 gram Michael gave exactly the right period for this messer. around 1490 best, jasper |
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14th August 2011, 10:03 AM
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#220 |
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 26
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Ahh... again so many great things!
 A few questions: 1) Are there a remains of a second ring on the messer's hilt? Two broken pieces in the center of a guard look like having a cross section just like a ring on another side, and remind it very closely, as for me. 2) And the first за those four two-handed swords - what are it's more detailed dimensions, if they are available? Weight, blade width and thickness, hilt length etc. |
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14th August 2011, 07:39 PM
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#221 |
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(deceased)
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Hi Zwielicht,
At the beginning of my latest post on the Italian Swords I gave all the measurements I had, according to their line of appearance. Best, Michael |
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17th August 2011, 07:34 PM
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#222 |
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(deceased)
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A Katzbalger, ca. 1515-20, and a Broadsword, ca. 1550
... preserved in the Castel Sant' Angelo, Rome, the Katzbalger of unusual length and therefore probably mounted with a later blade!
m |
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18th August 2011, 12:33 PM
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#223 |
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Lead Moderator European Armoury
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,638
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Ah Michl,
Definitely your picture is much better than mine, 'secretely' taken with a friend's camera, when i visited the Castle last year. 
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18th August 2011, 06:00 PM
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#224 |
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(deceased)
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Oh 'Nando,
They are not mine, I found them on the web. Best, Michl |
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22nd August 2011, 03:33 PM
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#225 |
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(deceased)
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German two hand swords in the Norwich Castle museum: the one on the left a bearing sword of ca. 1600, the one on the right an early Landsknecht sword of ca. 1490, also illustrated in detail below.
Associated with the armor is a hand and a half sword of ca. 1550-60. Best, Michael |
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9th October 2011, 07:17 PM
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#226 |
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(deceased)
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Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
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Hi there,
Some 20 years ago, my friend Ottmar saw an unusually good and fine Katzbalger in perfect old patina in a North German private collection, and offered them what would 10,000 euro today. They would not sell though. Today, that same piece - unfortunately cleaned meanwhile - was sold at auction by Czerny's, Italy, where it was fortunately labeled as 19th c. copy. So my friend bought it at the estimate of 1,500 euro. Sometimes all you have to do is wait patiently ... Now here it is, Southern Germany, ca. 1520, overall length 94.5 cm. Please note the small piece of wood inlaid in the iron grip and framed by a brass band, and the fine roped decoration on the hilt, which is characteristic of the early Renaissance period. The short lateral fullers at the base of the blade can be found on most original Katzbalgers. The mark struck two times has not yet been identified, it might be a variation of the so-called Brescian eye though. Enjoy, and best, Michael Last edited by Matchlock; 9th October 2011 at 08:24 PM. |
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9th October 2011, 07:25 PM
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#227 |
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Lead Moderator European Armoury
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,638
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Fantastic !!
Hey Michl, did you notice the auctioner dates it XIX century ?  ... or is my italian far too rusted ?  - |
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9th October 2011, 08:01 PM
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#228 | |
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(deceased)
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Quote:
But that's exactly what I pointed out, 'Nando - and that's also what the joke is all about!  It really is, as I said: ca. 1520 and all original!Best, Michl Last edited by Matchlock; 9th October 2011 at 08:14 PM. |
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9th October 2011, 08:05 PM
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#229 |
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Lead Moderator European Armoury
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,638
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Sorry for being too speedy; didn't read the whole paragraph
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9th October 2011, 08:14 PM
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#230 |
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(deceased)
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That's o.k., my friend,
Things like these tend to happen to old folks like us!   Michl |
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1st November 2011, 06:44 PM
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#231 |
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(deceased)
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A standard bearer Landsknecht with a short sword that could be called an early predecessor of a Katzbalger. Please note the slightly curved quillons.
Woodcut by Albrecht Dürer, 1502. Best, Michael |
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13th November 2011, 02:00 AM
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#232 | |
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(deceased)
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Quote:
Best, Michael |
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19th November 2011, 05:38 AM
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#233 |
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(deceased)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
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For another good Katzbalger sword new to the market, and in our member Fernando's collection, please see
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=14555 Best, Michael |
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4th December 2011, 07:19 PM
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#234 |
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(deceased)
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Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
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A good and rare Landsknecht one-hand sword, in excavated condition and missing its originally sandwiched and cord-bound leather-covered wooden grip scales, ca. 1525-30, just failed to sell at only 1.600 euro at the Dorotheum, Vienna.
Overall length ca. 110 cm. Best, Michael Last edited by Matchlock; 4th December 2011 at 07:44 PM. |
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4th December 2011, 07:57 PM
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#235 |
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(deceased)
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This one-hand sword is very similar to a hand-and-a-half sword of identical date, overall length 119.5 cm, preserved in the Historisches Museum Regensburg (author's photos attached, the one top is the one discussed here).
The blade bears a deeply-struck South German cross-and-orb mark. m |
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4th December 2011, 07:58 PM
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#236 |
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(deceased)
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The orb-and-cross mark.
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6th December 2011, 01:02 PM
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#237 |
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 161
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Ulrich von Schellenberg sword
  View item at Kunsthistorisches Museum Identifier: HJRK_A_287 Format: Total: L. 88 cm, weight 1400 g Blade: L. 75 cm, W 4.5 cm, weight 500 g gilded bronze, leather, brass Publisher: Kunsthistorisches Museum Wien, Hofjagd- und Rüstkammer| Landsknecht sword with sheath for knife and an awl eight Date: in 1515 Geographic coverage: South German Type: Sword |Relation: Hofjagd- und Rüstkammer Description: This from the southern German Landsknecht sword has a type of so-called Katzbalger eighth-shaped curved crossguard, which is heavily gold plated. The swing -up handle is duplicated four times with St. Andrew's cross, well-decorated as an indication of the closeness of the owner of the house of Habsburg. When the stitching on the knife-eaters there is a continuous poetic inscription. Ulrich Schellenberg fought as Imperial officer in both Maximilian I and Charles V in Upper Italy against France and Venice. Caption: The inscriptions of the now lost awl grip caps and 4 Knives are out of the 19 Century, handed down: ALS. IR. ZV. LIEB) / KAIN. FRED. ON. SI / ALS. MIT. GLVCK / ICH. WART. DER. ZIT / (ICH. LID. VND. SCHWIG) / ICH. HOFF. V .. See lessData provider: Kunsthistorisches Museum| Provider: Kulturpool| Austria| This record can be cited in the Harvard Bibliographic style using the text below: (1515) Landsknecht sword with sheath for knife and an awl eight Webpage available at link below: [Accessed: November 29, 2011 09:27:18 PM] |
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6th December 2011, 01:08 PM
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#238 |
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 161
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Better photos wanted
If anyone has better photos of this sword or even the handle only, please post them here. I can buy them from the KHM but the cost may be more than it is worth for my little project.
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6th December 2011, 07:49 PM
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#239 |
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(deceased)
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Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
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Hi John,
Here are better images of the von Schellenberg Katzbalger at the KHM Vienna. Thought I had posted them somewhere here before but can't find them. The close-ups of the hilt in color at the bottom are mine. Even if you are lucky and get special permission like I did, and are allowed to use flashlight, taking good pictures is extremely critical in the Vienna exhibition (as in most museums when it comes down to guns ...  ).The blade mark on the ricasso is an Italian-style crowned Greek pi. Enjoy, Michael Last edited by Matchlock; 7th December 2011 at 01:43 AM. |
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6th December 2011, 11:13 PM
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#240 |
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(deceased)
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Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
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Those interested in Ulrich von Schellenberg's biography, please see
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...689#post129689 m |
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