Sombro Or Jaka Sura?

Karttikeya · 7th October 2011, 03:51 PM

Hi all, anybody can help me to identify this keris? If you ever see or have this keris type, kindly share your experiences with me..

Thanking you in advance

ganjawulung · 8th October 2011, 07:06 PM

Neither Sombro nor Jaka Sura, is not a name of keris type. Sombro, was a female empu -- according to some keris legends -- once lived in the era of Pajajaran kingdom, West Jawa around 10 century. While Jaka Sura was one of Supamandrangi's son -- while he was serving as 'abdi dalem' (king's servant) as an empu in Blambangan, East Jawa in Majapahit era (around 14th century). Supamandrangi is the most famous name of a Majapahit empu. These are legends, of course, not history. Your keris's dapur is Puthut... Or betok type of keris, with puthut motif..

A. G. Maisey · 8th October 2011, 10:43 PM

I find your post very interesting Pak Ganja.

You say that there is no keris type that is known as "Keris Sombro".

Is this correct?

However, from the mid-1970's until Monday 3rd. October 2011, very knowledgeable people at the heart of the keris world in Solo were still referring to small, lightweight keris betok with a piercing at the end of the tang as a keris sombro.

I do understand that you are very well placed in the keris world in Jakarta, so I accept your advice that within this coterie of which you are a part, Sombro now is only taken to refer to the legendary female maker who bore that name, however, people in other places still recognise a particular type of keris as "Sombro".

I find the recent --- let us say, within the last 10 or 15 years --- changes in keris "knowledge" and terminology very interesting. It demonstrates very well that no matter how long established a particular field of interest may be, new comers can always make alterations to suit current needs.

However, in respect of the keris under discussion, yes, I agree, this is a betok puthut.

ganjawulung · 9th October 2011, 12:11 AM

Thank you, for the response, Mr Maisey,

And thank you too, that you always mention that I am very well placed in Jakarta, although more than 20 years -- from my childhoold -- I was grown up in Solo as a javanese. And even both, my late parents were born and grown up in Solo as Javanese family. We "lived in the tradition" of keris, as did wayang and gamelan music too. At least, I knew that my father owned keris, since my childhood. And Jakarta where I live is still in Jawa, and only less than 12 hours by car to Solo, or 55 minutes by plane. Keris circle in Jakarta, and Solo or Yogya are not too far to work together, or to communicate in this "Steve Jobs" era. We still organize keris exhibition together. But I think the "sombro case" is not the case of whether I am Jakartanese, or Solonese. Or even Australian, as you. I apologize if I can not say in the right English word, on this case, as usual...

If I can say, that keris with certain characteristics of blade is usually called as "keris sedayu" is a type of keris, then I must say I was wrong to tell, that "sombro keris" is not the name of keris type. Concerning, that the name "sedayu" derived also from the name of empu, Pangeran Sedayu or Ki Jaka Supa as the case of "sombro keris". And not derived from location, Sedayu in Yogyakarta or other place. Pangeran Sedayu was also known as the son of Majapahit empu, Supamandrangi. But what I want to say in my response to Karttikeya, is mainly the type of his keris in the picture. The type of keris of his, in the image, is Puthut. Or keris which bears dhapur, Puthut...

GANJAWULUNG

A. G. Maisey · 9th October 2011, 01:28 AM

Pak Ganja, you can call me Alan.

If it helps, I'll address you as Jimmy, but I really do not feel comfortable with the "Mr." appellation from a man of your seniority.

Permit me to clarify:- you are not under attack.

As I have never met you, it may seem strange to you, but I am well aware of your background.

I mentioned Jakarta because it is in Jakarta you have your place in the world of the keris. At least, that is my understanding gained from those with whom I associate in Solo. You are undoubtedly a part of the Jakarta coterie.

Again, although Jakarta is geographically placed in the Island of Jawa, I feel that many people living in Solo would not agree that it is a part of the Land of Jawa --- but perhaps their views, as is my own, are somewhat dated.

Upon reflection, you may perhaps agree that the language, culture, world-view and attitude from a Jakarta-centric position is just a little different from the Surakarta-centric position.

I repeat:- you are not under attack; the comment in my previous post was simply an observance of the way in which perspectives change in accordance with the passing of time and emergence of new needs. I have been observing the changing nature of the keris world in Jawa --- and I guess in Indonesia --- now for around 40 years, and I really do find the changes as fascinating as the subject itself.

You owe nobody any apologies for your English, as usual it far more than adequate.

ganjawulung · 9th October 2011, 03:16 AM

Ok Alan, thank you for the clarification. Yes, we have never met. But a few years back, I've asked someone whom you visited couple of times (Mr Yantono, he has a besalen, and I still have a house of my parents less than 200 meters away from him in Palur, empty house though. My parents were not used to stay there, but in Mangkubumen, in Jalan Yasadipura. I used to spend my childhood in my grandmother's house too in Kusumayudan...), once I asked Yantono to say to you that I want to meet you (I know you regularly visited him). Yantono said, you don't want to meet and talk with me if related to keris matter.....

Anyway, Solo was part of my childhood, and also still have big family there. And of course, still have "keris family", keris friends like young "empu" or you may say "keris makers" such as KRT Subandi Supaningrat (given formal name by the kraton Surakarta), Sukamdi, Yanto, Yantono and of course the respected Pak Pus or empu Pauzan Puspasukadgo you know him well. I don't even feel, that I am Jakartanese for the last couple of years. Because I am still "living javanese", talking javanese, watching javanese wayang at Taman Mini, or other occasion, and gathering with keris friends there...

7th October 2011, 03:51 PM	#1
Karttikeya Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 54	Sombro Or Jaka Sura? Hi all, anybody can help me to identify this keris? If you ever see or have this keris type, kindly share your experiences with me.. Thanking you in advance Attached Images Last edited by Rick; 8th October 2011 at 04:49 PM. Reason: picture uploaded to the site .

8th October 2011, 07:06 PM	#2
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	Neither Sombro nor Jaka Sura, is not a name of keris type. Sombro, was a female empu -- according to some keris legends -- once lived in the era of Pajajaran kingdom, West Jawa around 10 century. While Jaka Sura was one of Supamandrangi's son -- while he was serving as 'abdi dalem' (king's servant) as an empu in Blambangan, East Jawa in Majapahit era (around 14th century). Supamandrangi is the most famous name of a Majapahit empu. These are legends, of course, not history. Your keris's dapur is Puthut... Or betok type of keris, with puthut motif..

8th October 2011, 10:43 PM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,714	I find your post very interesting Pak Ganja. You say that there is no keris type that is known as "Keris Sombro". Is this correct? However, from the mid-1970's until Monday 3rd. October 2011, very knowledgeable people at the heart of the keris world in Solo were still referring to small, lightweight keris betok with a piercing at the end of the tang as a keris sombro. I do understand that you are very well placed in the keris world in Jakarta, so I accept your advice that within this coterie of which you are a part, Sombro now is only taken to refer to the legendary female maker who bore that name, however, people in other places still recognise a particular type of keris as "Sombro". I find the recent --- let us say, within the last 10 or 15 years --- changes in keris "knowledge" and terminology very interesting. It demonstrates very well that no matter how long established a particular field of interest may be, new comers can always make alterations to suit current needs. However, in respect of the keris under discussion, yes, I agree, this is a betok puthut.

9th October 2011, 12:11 AM	#4
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	Thank you, for the response, Mr Maisey, And thank you too, that you always mention that I am very well placed in Jakarta, although more than 20 years -- from my childhoold -- I was grown up in Solo as a javanese. And even both, my late parents were born and grown up in Solo as Javanese family. We "lived in the tradition" of keris, as did wayang and gamelan music too. At least, I knew that my father owned keris, since my childhood. And Jakarta where I live is still in Jawa, and only less than 12 hours by car to Solo, or 55 minutes by plane. Keris circle in Jakarta, and Solo or Yogya are not too far to work together, or to communicate in this "Steve Jobs" era. We still organize keris exhibition together. But I think the "sombro case" is not the case of whether I am Jakartanese, or Solonese. Or even Australian, as you. I apologize if I can not say in the right English word, on this case, as usual... If I can say, that keris with certain characteristics of blade is usually called as "keris sedayu" is a type of keris, then I must say I was wrong to tell, that "sombro keris" is not the name of keris type. Concerning, that the name "sedayu" derived also from the name of empu, Pangeran Sedayu or Ki Jaka Supa as the case of "sombro keris". And not derived from location, Sedayu in Yogyakarta or other place. Pangeran Sedayu was also known as the son of Majapahit empu, Supamandrangi. But what I want to say in my response to Karttikeya, is mainly the type of his keris in the picture. The type of keris of his, in the image, is Puthut. Or keris which bears dhapur, Puthut... GANJAWULUNG

9th October 2011, 01:28 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,714	Pak Ganja, you can call me Alan. If it helps, I'll address you as Jimmy, but I really do not feel comfortable with the "Mr." appellation from a man of your seniority. Permit me to clarify:- you are not under attack. As I have never met you, it may seem strange to you, but I am well aware of your background. I mentioned Jakarta because it is in Jakarta you have your place in the world of the keris. At least, that is my understanding gained from those with whom I associate in Solo. You are undoubtedly a part of the Jakarta coterie. Again, although Jakarta is geographically placed in the Island of Jawa, I feel that many people living in Solo would not agree that it is a part of the Land of Jawa --- but perhaps their views, as is my own, are somewhat dated. Upon reflection, you may perhaps agree that the language, culture, world-view and attitude from a Jakarta-centric position is just a little different from the Surakarta-centric position. I repeat:- you are not under attack; the comment in my previous post was simply an observance of the way in which perspectives change in accordance with the passing of time and emergence of new needs. I have been observing the changing nature of the keris world in Jawa --- and I guess in Indonesia --- now for around 40 years, and I really do find the changes as fascinating as the subject itself. You owe nobody any apologies for your English, as usual it far more than adequate.

9th October 2011, 03:16 AM	#6
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	Ok Alan, thank you for the clarification. Yes, we have never met. But a few years back, I've asked someone whom you visited couple of times (Mr Yantono, he has a besalen, and I still have a house of my parents less than 200 meters away from him in Palur, empty house though. My parents were not used to stay there, but in Mangkubumen, in Jalan Yasadipura. I used to spend my childhood in my grandmother's house too in Kusumayudan...), once I asked Yantono to say to you that I want to meet you (I know you regularly visited him). Yantono said, you don't want to meet and talk with me if related to keris matter..... Anyway, Solo was part of my childhood, and also still have big family there. And of course, still have "keris family", keris friends like young "empu" or you may say "keris makers" such as KRT Subandi Supaningrat (given formal name by the kraton Surakarta), Sukamdi, Yanto, Yantono and of course the respected Pak Pus or empu Pauzan Puspasukadgo you know him well. I don't even feel, that I am Jakartanese for the last couple of years. Because I am still "living javanese", talking javanese, watching javanese wayang at Taman Mini, or other occasion, and gathering with keris friends there...