Incription on keris scabbard / translation needed

asomotif · 13th March 2011, 10:45 PM

Can someone tell me what this inscription on a keris scabbard says ?

I have no idea what kind of writing this is.
It looks like a mix of several signs.
There is a clear S and something that looks like an Omega sign.
and than an series of very square linear signs. They remind at the best of jewish.

Thanks and best regards,
Willem

tunggulametung · 14th March 2011, 11:46 PM

This is aksara jawa. I can't make it into meaningful word, but maybe name of a place in Netherlands? (the way it reads is similar to Breda and the 'hg' is more Dutch than Indonesian) I mention some possibilities but since I only read simple form, I might be wrong, if so please excuse.

Amuk Murugul · 15th March 2011, 04:15 AM

Hullo everybody,

Willem, to me it appears to be a date: 15th. day of the month (a.k.a Purnama/Full-moon, as the moon just starts to reduce) and (Pasaran/Market-day) Wage on the Javanese Calendar.(One can probably calculate the year by working out when there was a 15th Wage, ..... IDK).
As for the 'GS', I don't know what that is, probably exactly what it looks like: the initials 'GS'.

Hope it helps (Javanese is really not my forte).

Best,

asomotif · 18th March 2011, 10:42 PM

Thank you both for the explanation.

Is/was it normal within javanese culture to put a date on a keris ?
This feels more like a "western" thing to do.

Best regards,
Willem

A. G. Maisey · 20th March 2011, 11:44 AM

I do not read hanacaraka.

If it is written perfectly I can follow with the aid of a chart, but I cannot read it as I would read roman letters.

However, my son-in-law can read hanacaraka as easily as I read English.

From the inscription on this gandar I thought that I could read "ga", and "ka" and I was certain of only one symbol, and that was "5".

So I sent it to my son-in-law.

He could not read anything, except the "5". He referred it to several older people who are even more familiar with this script than he is, they could equally not make any sense of anything except the "5". He then borrowed some charts of various ways of writing the hanacaraka and did some comparisons. No result.

The problem is that the letters are only approximately formed, and where there should be a sandangan or a pasangan there is none, where a letter has been written it is half written only and then cut off.

Probably the person who put this on the gandar was using a personal shorthand, and he knew exactly what he had written, but it was never intended that anybody except the writer should be able to understand it.

As the inscription stands it makes no sense at all.

Asomotif, as to dates on keris, I have often had keris that had numbers or dates on them, mostly on the back of the pendok, but sometimes written in ink on the back of the wrongko. Why, I do not know, but I imagine probably to commemorate something.

asomotif · 22nd March 2011, 07:40 AM

Thank you Alan for your help,

Interesting to see that another type of letter sometimes needs much more detail to be clearly understood.

Unfortunately it brings us not closer to the meaning of the inscription.
Never the less, it is a uncommon place to find an inscription.

Maybe it was just a short note that the maker had to finish the lower part of the gandar before the 5th

Best regards,
Willem

13th March 2011, 10:45 PM	#1
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,221	Incription on keris scabbard / translation needed Can someone tell me what this inscription on a keris scabbard says ? I have no idea what kind of writing this is. It looks like a mix of several signs. There is a clear S and something that looks like an Omega sign. and than an series of very square linear signs. They remind at the best of jewish. Thanks and best regards, Willem Attached Images Last edited by asomotif; 14th March 2011 at 07:27 AM.

14th March 2011, 11:46 PM	#2
tunggulametung Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 238	This is aksara jawa. I can't make it into meaningful word, but maybe name of a place in Netherlands? (the way it reads is similar to Breda and the 'hg' is more Dutch than Indonesian) I mention some possibilities but since I only read simple form, I might be wrong, if so please excuse. Attached Images

15th March 2011, 04:15 AM	#3
Amuk Murugul Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Kaboejoetan Galoenggoeng Mélben Posts: 457	Hullo everybody, Willem, to me it appears to be a date: 15th. day of the month (a.k.a Purnama/Full-moon, as the moon just starts to reduce) and (Pasaran/Market-day) Wage on the Javanese Calendar.(One can probably calculate the year by working out when there was a 15th Wage, ..... IDK). As for the 'GS', I don't know what that is, probably exactly what it looks like: the initials 'GS'. Hope it helps (Javanese is really not my forte). Best, Last edited by Amuk Murugul; 15th March 2011 at 04:31 AM.

18th March 2011, 10:42 PM	#4
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,221	Thank you both for the explanation. Is/was it normal within javanese culture to put a date on a keris ? This feels more like a "western" thing to do. Best regards, Willem

20th March 2011, 11:44 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,699	I do not read hanacaraka. If it is written perfectly I can follow with the aid of a chart, but I cannot read it as I would read roman letters. However, my son-in-law can read hanacaraka as easily as I read English. From the inscription on this gandar I thought that I could read "ga", and "ka" and I was certain of only one symbol, and that was "5". So I sent it to my son-in-law. He could not read anything, except the "5". He referred it to several older people who are even more familiar with this script than he is, they could equally not make any sense of anything except the "5". He then borrowed some charts of various ways of writing the hanacaraka and did some comparisons. No result. The problem is that the letters are only approximately formed, and where there should be a sandangan or a pasangan there is none, where a letter has been written it is half written only and then cut off. Probably the person who put this on the gandar was using a personal shorthand, and he knew exactly what he had written, but it was never intended that anybody except the writer should be able to understand it. As the inscription stands it makes no sense at all. Asomotif, as to dates on keris, I have often had keris that had numbers or dates on them, mostly on the back of the pendok, but sometimes written in ink on the back of the wrongko. Why, I do not know, but I imagine probably to commemorate something.

22nd March 2011, 07:40 AM	#6
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,221	Thank you Alan for your help, Interesting to see that another type of letter sometimes needs much more detail to be clearly understood. Unfortunately it brings us not closer to the meaning of the inscription. Never the less, it is a uncommon place to find an inscription. Maybe it was just a short note that the maker had to finish the lower part of the gandar before the 5th Best regards, Willem