Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > European Armoury
User Name
Password
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 28th March 2020, 02:04 PM   #1
Lansquenet59
Member
 
Lansquenet59's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: France
Posts: 67
Default Breastplate

Hello everyone, here is a breastplate that I have had in my collection for a long time. Comments and information are welcome. For me, it dates from the end of the 17th century, see early 18th. And used for the seat. It weighs 10 kg, with a metal lining inside. A test shot on it, and a second one (enemy perhaps).
Also look at the collar which is riveted. It is rather atypical.
Attached Images
          
Lansquenet59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th March 2020, 03:08 PM   #2
ulfberth
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 278
Default

a very nice example ! Im not sure on the date it could be 17 century also.
Besides the nice engravings which are primitive but they give it a_lot of character, the reinforcement is purely functional and most probably placed before a campaign or so. There are breastplates of the same era with removable reinforcement and permanent place on during working life as there are heavy ones made in one piece from the beginning.
A pure item, i like it a lot !
ulfberth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th March 2020, 03:37 PM   #3
fernando
Lead Moderator European Armoury
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 7,833
Default

A rather interesting peascod example, Thomas. No wonder it is that heavy, with the metal reinforcement.
May i ask an ignorant question about the collar piece, once Dirk didn't mention anything about it. Why does it have those crude iron rivets ? Could it have been removed for some reason and later riveted back in place ? Can't we see a little disalignment of the decoration in the center ?
fernando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th March 2020, 04:36 PM   #4
Lansquenet59
Member
 
Lansquenet59's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: France
Posts: 67
Default

My theory is that the collar may have been adapted later, perhaps for better protection, as well as the inner plate too.
I think, originally a simple breastplate transformed for the seat ....
Lansquenet59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th March 2020, 04:46 PM   #5
fernando
Lead Moderator European Armoury
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 7,833
Default

I confess my ignorance. What do you mean by 'seat'; not siege, of course .
fernando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th March 2020, 05:35 PM   #6
David R
Member
 
David R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 575
Default

There are breastplates in the Leeds Royal Armouries Museum that are doubled, with a layer between that is made up almost random scrap. Plates from faulds and tassets held between two breastplates, or a breastplate and a metal lining. They are dated to the later 17th century.
David R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th March 2020, 05:47 PM   #7
Lansquenet59
Member
 
Lansquenet59's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: France
Posts: 67
Default

"Seat" (siège) is the French term, what is the English term? When is there an attack on a fortification?
Lansquenet59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th March 2020, 06:06 PM   #8
fernando
Lead Moderator European Armoury
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 7,833
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lansquenet59
"Seat" (siège) is the French term, what is the English term? When is there an attack on a fortification?

I figured that was what you meant; just wasn't sure. Yes, siege (surround) in English, cerco in Portuguese.
fernando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th March 2020, 06:43 PM   #9
Lansquenet59
Member
 
Lansquenet59's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: France
Posts: 67
Default

Okay, thank you, I'll know for the next time.
Lansquenet59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th March 2020, 07:54 PM   #10
ulfberth
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 278
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fernando
A rather interesting peascod example, Thomas. No wonder it is that heavy, with the metal reinforcement.
May i ask an ignorant question about the collar piece, once Dirk didn't mention anything about it. Why does it have those crude iron rivets ? Could it have been removed for some reason and later riveted back in place ? Can't we see a little disalignment of the decoration in the center ?

The place were the iron rivets are now is were the brass rivets like the one on the sides used to be, they closed the old holes with iron placing the reinforcement. Its clear this breastplate was transformed as Lansquenet put it for a siege or a campaign, closing it more on the neck in the process providing more protection.
ulfberth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th March 2020, 07:59 PM   #11
fernando
Lead Moderator European Armoury
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 7,833
Default

Duly noted, Dirk .
fernando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th March 2020, 09:16 PM   #12
ulfberth
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 278
Default

this armor is obviously from a high ranked officer and more decorated , but if you look closely it has also brass decoration on the sides , decorated with similar lines across the torso and even a resembling shape. It is in Musee de L'armee in Paris and is described as " armor for the siege circa 1670" if you look closely you can see that this helmet has also reinforcement plates on top. I wonder if the two bolts on the breastplate are used to attach extra reinforcement plates to, this method was used at the time on both helmets and breastplates. This closed helmet for the field circa 1620 with bolt on ( removable) reinforcement plates is in the Metmuseum weight 6,293 kilo.
Attached Images
    
ulfberth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th March 2020, 12:48 PM   #13
Lansquenet59
Member
 
Lansquenet59's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: France
Posts: 67
Default

Thank you for sharing. I did not know this plate reinforcement system. It's very interesting.
Lansquenet59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th March 2020, 02:15 PM   #14
fernando
Lead Moderator European Armoury
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 7,833
Default

It must have been hell to keep head (and body) inside these apparatuses; in a warm/hot climate, they become as hot as stoves. In reading chronicles of the (Portuguese) discoveries period in India, those who wore armour couldn't stand the heat and often had to take them off ... and apparently not the reinforced version.
fernando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th March 2020, 02:26 PM   #15
ulfberth
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 278
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fernando
It must have been hell to keep head (and body) inside these apparatuses; in a warm/hot climate, they become as hot as stoves. In reading chronicles of the (Portuguese) discoveries period in India, those who wore armour couldn't stand the heat and often had to take them off ... and apparently not the reinforced version.

take in account the padded liner in helmets and gambason worn under the armor
ulfberth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th March 2020, 04:23 PM   #16
Victrix
Member
 
Victrix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Sweden
Posts: 371
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fernando
It must have been hell to keep head (and body) inside these apparatuses; in a warm/hot climate, they become as hot as stoves. In reading chronicles of the (Portuguese) discoveries period in India, those who wore armour couldn't stand the heat and often had to take them off ... and apparently not the reinforced version.


Hence the popularity of wearing mail armour in the Middle East and other hot places. Air could circulate and heat evaporate.
Victrix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th March 2020, 04:25 PM   #17
fernando
Lead Moderator European Armoury
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 7,833
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Victrix
Hence the popularity of wearing mail armour in the Middle East and other hot places. Air could circulate and heat evaporate.

Yes; no sauna .
fernando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th March 2020, 06:29 PM   #18
ulfberth
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 278
Default

another example of a reinforcement breastplate, to be bolted on and worn on top of the regular breastplate and make it bulletproof, weight 6,662 kg, era circa 1630 origin Italian , Metropolitan Museum.
Attached Images
 
ulfberth is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 04:13 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.