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Old 17th August 2022, 02:23 PM   #1
urbanspaceman
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Default square pommel schiavonnas

I came across this entry in a 1919 Ffoulkes catalogue of the Tower Armoury and it grabbed my attention; then it got me wondering if there was any known history regarding the square pommel before it appeared on schiavonnas?
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Old 17th August 2022, 06:05 PM   #2
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In the illuminated inventory of Madrid Royal Armoury (XVIth century), there are two swords "espadas esclavonas". Nowadays only one of them remains, the socalled G26 in the 1900 catalogue. They belonged to Carlos I and probably were of Hungarian origin. Quillons as rings. I have a good quality copy made by the Fabrica de Toledo of it in the 1960s.

I have also a catalogue of an exposition in Belgium, Hongaarse Wapenraal, where a rich version and a more soldierly version of them are found (XVIth century), although pommels are rather octogonal. Quillons as rings as well.

In the Wien Waffensammlung catalogue I do not find examples, although there are a number of Hungarian weapons.
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Old 17th August 2022, 06:24 PM   #3
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What is the date of the two similar swords; does it say?
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Old 17th August 2022, 06:37 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by urbanspaceman View Post
What is the date of the two similar swords; does it say?
They guess early XVIth. They shall be before Mohacs.

I found some (poor) pictures of my copy. I do not find pictures of the original G26 on the web.

An Hungarian sword was auctioned by Christies. Round pommel early XVIth.

https://www.christies.com/en/lot/lot-5079437

It does not allow me to copy (maybe later with firefox). I have to leave now.
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Old 17th August 2022, 07:51 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanspaceman View Post
I came across this entry in a 1919 Ffoulkes catalogue of the Tower Armoury and it grabbed my attention; then it got me wondering if there was any known history regarding the square pommel before it appeared on schiavonnas?
Before schiavonas the square pommel was a feature on its predecessor, the spada schiavonesca (Slavonian sword) used in Hungary and neighbouring countries. I think the square pommel is basically a Kingdom of Hungary (including all its former lands) thing and there are lots of swords with this feature in the National Museum of Hungary in Budapest. The square pommel is also associated with Venice which exported the N.Italy produced swords to Hungary and the region. The swords also have S shaped cross guards which were a common feature of the Landsknecht swords.
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Old 17th August 2022, 08:14 PM   #6
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This thread is relevant.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...6&postcount=15
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Old 17th August 2022, 09:51 PM   #7
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Absolutely. I would add that although the Kingdom of Hungary often controlled the hinterland, Venice controlled much of the Dalmatian coast and cities. There was a lot of shipping and trade going on. Many Slavonians served as mercenaries and shipcrews in Venice. The Riva degli Schiavoni is a quayside area in Venice. Other landmarks named after the early Slavonian merchants include Palazzo Schiavoni and Scuola di San Giorgio degli Schiavoni. Apparently it is also not uncommon to find the name of Schiavone today as an Italian surname.
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Old 18th August 2022, 12:58 AM   #8
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This one as well
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=12800
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Old 18th August 2022, 06:56 PM   #9
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This map of the 16thC shows how much of Dalmatia was controlled by the Republic of Venice. The Kingdom of Croatia-Slavonia was in dual monarchy with Hungary. When Hungary was in dual monarchy with Austria, the Austrian Emperor also became King of Croatia-Slavonia. The map serves to highlight the proximity of Venetian territory with Hungary/Croatia hinterland which resulted in trade flows, including arms.
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Old 25th August 2022, 10:40 AM   #10
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Default square pommels

Thanks Folks.
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