I’ve just found some videos on warangan making and using

A. G. Maisey · 23rd May 2022, 10:07 PM

As to the danger of handling arsenic.

Here in The Land of Oz (AKA: Australia), people who need to work with arsenic are routinely tested for arsenic levels in their body and appropriate action is taken.

In Jawa I have known a number of people who stain blades, some use the commercial method that the video shows us, or a variation thereof, others use the method I have set forth, or a variation thereof. None have been affected by, nor died of arsenic related diseases, most have died of emphysema or some other tobacco related disease.

Yes, there can be no question that arsenic can affect health. It is a possibility that depends upon the level of exposure. In many parts of the world, arsenic used to be used as a medication.

The easy availability of knowledge that has arisen since the proliferation of the internet is very tempting. The making of a video now is common. The big, very big, problem with this internet knowledge is that we need a very strong foundation of real knowledge to differentiate between true knowledge and waffle.

There is one hell of a lot of waffle on the net, and You Tube is a major offender. I sometimes think it is an intentional disinformation campaign to dumb everybody down to a pre-determined level. A tool of societal management.

The method that I have outlined above does work. Results can be improved by using slight variations, variations that I myself use, but that I am not prepared to recommend to others because of the possibility of somebody taking legal action against me.

I stained a lot of blades very successfully before I ever learnt the variations used in Central Jawa.

Some years ago I spent a day or so with a lady who worked in the museum industry, I ran her through the entire process of staining and when we parted she had a very good understanding of the process. My contribution was only a small part of the further research that she carried out. Eventually she produced an academic paper:-

Scroll down to page #19

https://aiccm.org.au/wp-content/uplo...June2007_0.pdf

Anthony G. · 24th May 2022, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

As to the danger of handling arsenic.

Here in The Land of Oz (AKA: Australia), people who need to work with arsenic are routinely tested for arsenic levels in their body and appropriate action is taken.

In Jawa I have known a number of people who stain blades, some use the commercial method that the video shows us, or a variation thereof, others use the method I have set forth, or a variation thereof. None have been affected by, nor died of arsenic related diseases, most have died of emphysema or some other tobacco related disease.

Yes, there can be no question that arsenic can affect health. It is a possibility that depends upon the level of exposure. In many parts of the world, arsenic used to be used as a medication.

The easy availability of knowledge that has arisen since the proliferation of the internet is very tempting. The making of a video now is common. The big, very big, problem with this internet knowledge is that we need a very strong foundation of real knowledge to differentiate between true knowledge and waffle.

There is one hell of a lot of waffle on the net, and You Tube is a major offender. I sometimes think it is an intentional disinformation campaign to dumb everybody down to a pre-determined level. A tool of societal management.

The method that I have outlined above does work. Results can be improved by using slight variations, variations that I myself use, but that I am not prepared to recommend to others because of the possibility of somebody taking legal action against me.

I stained a lot of blades very successfully before I ever learnt the variations used in Central Jawa.

Some years ago I spent a day or so with a lady who worked in the museum industry, I ran her through the entire process of staining and when we parted she had a very good understanding of the process. My contribution was only a small part of the further research that she carried out. Eventually she produced an academic paper:-

Scroll down to page #19

https://aiccm.org.au/wp-content/uplo...June2007_0.pdf

Hi Alan, thanks for the sharing but do you happen to have a local pdf copy?

<Oops, This Page Could Not Be Found!>

I also support what Alan and David had just commented on safety. When i try warangan, I used disposable gloves and mask as i dislike the smell. Safety is essential when handling chemical and many videos do not enforce it. Many newbies might endanger themselves due to blindly following people's videos.

A. G. Maisey · 24th May 2022, 02:29 AM

I put the link into this thread last night:-

Black stain spreading on keris during vinegar cleaning

I just checked it in that thread a moment ago and it takes you to where you need to be.

I put the same link into our thread here this morning and it doesn't work.

On the safety issue I support it 110% for everybody else, for myself I follow the Jawa/Bali philosophy.

Siwa's got my number, and when its time to move on, I don't have much of a say in the matter.

Anthony G. · 24th May 2022, 02:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

I put the link into this thread last night:-

Black stain spreading on keris during vinegar cleaning

I just checked it in that thread a moment ago and it takes you to where you need to be.

I put the same link into our thread here this morning and it doesn't work.

On the safety issue I support it 110% for everybody else, for myself I follow the Jawa/Bali philosophy.

Siwa's got my number, and when its time to move on, I don't have much of a say in the matter.

Yes, Alan. Indeed that is odd. I have taken liberty to download and upload here (pdf). I used the link in another msg of yours and the link works fine.

David · 24th May 2022, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

On the safety issue I support it 110% for everybody else, for myself I follow the Jawa/Bali philosophy.

Siwa's got my number, and when its time to move on, I don't have much of a say in the matter.

I understand this, also 110% and feel very much the same way, though i am not against hedging my bets with Siwa where possible.

Of course i am sure you agree that the problem with videos like these is as Anthony suggests. Newbies see it on the web, they see the materials being handle without too much precaution, and they just assume these things are 100% safe. It's pretty irresponsible really, but there is not much we can do about it beyond stating the warnings here.

milandro · 19th March 2024, 04:26 PM

these are some new interesting videos from theKonservasi Museum Sonobudoyo from Yogyakarta

https://www.sonobudoyo.com/id/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-s303D47pQ8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cbDXRPDWjI

David · 19th March 2024, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milandro

these are some new interesting videos from theKonservasi Museum Sonobudoyo from Yogyakarta.

Thanks André. These are interesting, but i am confused about some of their methods.
In the first video they are cleaning the keris with the hilt attached, which seems very odd to me. I suppose there is a possibility that the hilt had been attached with some kind of adhesive and that they did not want to go through the trouble of removing it. But in that case, i this were mine, i believe i would have wrapped the hilt up as securely as i could in plastic wrap to protect it from the lime juice.
I also find it curious that they go to the trouble in both videos of first peeling the limes before juicing them. Seems like a lot of extra trouble. Is anyone aware of any negative effects if the lime is juiced while still in the rind?
In the second video they work on a naked blade and go to the next step of applying warangan. The first thing i noticed is that they don't bother to clean the blade back to "white", removing ALL the previous warangan, before proceeding. I have always been taught that this is essential to the process in order to get a good stain. Also interesting that after the warangan they apply cream soap. Perhaps this is supposed to help neutralize the acids. I have always used a slurry of baking powder to do that so using soap at this point is foreign to me. While the before and after images of their warangan process is indeed noticeable i have the feeling that a better stain is possible for this keris.

A. G. Maisey · 19th March 2024, 09:49 PM

Sonobudaya comes up as a risky site, I dumped it.

First youtube, no comment

Second youtube, fair job

both youtubes were pretty abbreviated processes, I doubt that in the hand I would be satisfied with either result, these were just "touch-up" jobs.

the reason for peeling the lime before squeezing is that you can extract more juice from a peeled lime than from an unpeeled lime, especially if one does not own a lemon juicer.

personally, I like to avoid staining an older blade if it is reasonably free of corrosion and the pamor can still be read, often a wash under running warm water with dishwash detergent, and then a WD40 spray will give an acceptable result.

I do not use anything to attempt neutralisation of acids when I do an arsenic stain, I rinse thoroughly under running water & massage with my fingers, I pat dry with a lint free cloth, & I sun dry before oiling.

I do use bicarb slurry when I stain with ferric chloride, but we do not use this on tosanaji.

23rd May 2022, 10:07 PM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,754	As to the danger of handling arsenic. Here in The Land of Oz (AKA: Australia), people who need to work with arsenic are routinely tested for arsenic levels in their body and appropriate action is taken. In Jawa I have known a number of people who stain blades, some use the commercial method that the video shows us, or a variation thereof, others use the method I have set forth, or a variation thereof. None have been affected by, nor died of arsenic related diseases, most have died of emphysema or some other tobacco related disease. Yes, there can be no question that arsenic can affect health. It is a possibility that depends upon the level of exposure. In many parts of the world, arsenic used to be used as a medication. The easy availability of knowledge that has arisen since the proliferation of the internet is very tempting. The making of a video now is common. The big, very big, problem with this internet knowledge is that we need a very strong foundation of real knowledge to differentiate between true knowledge and waffle. There is one hell of a lot of waffle on the net, and You Tube is a major offender. I sometimes think it is an intentional disinformation campaign to dumb everybody down to a pre-determined level. A tool of societal management. The method that I have outlined above does work. Results can be improved by using slight variations, variations that I myself use, but that I am not prepared to recommend to others because of the possibility of somebody taking legal action against me. I stained a lot of blades very successfully before I ever learnt the variations used in Central Jawa. Some years ago I spent a day or so with a lady who worked in the museum industry, I ran her through the entire process of staining and when we parted she had a very good understanding of the process. My contribution was only a small part of the further research that she carried out. Eventually she produced an academic paper:- Scroll down to page #19 https://aiccm.org.au/wp-content/uplo...June2007_0.pdf

24th May 2022, 02:29 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,754	I put the link into this thread last night:- Black stain spreading on keris during vinegar cleaning I just checked it in that thread a moment ago and it takes you to where you need to be. I put the same link into our thread here this morning and it doesn't work. On the safety issue I support it 110% for everybody else, for myself I follow the Jawa/Bali philosophy. Siwa's got my number, and when its time to move on, I don't have much of a say in the matter.

19th March 2024, 04:26 PM	#6
milandro Member Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: Netherlands Posts: 424	these are some new interesting videos from theKonservasi Museum Sonobudoyo from Yogyakarta https://www.sonobudoyo.com/id/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-s303D47pQ8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cbDXRPDWjI

19th March 2024, 09:49 PM	#8
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,754	Sonobudaya comes up as a risky site, I dumped it. First youtube, no comment Second youtube, fair job both youtubes were pretty abbreviated processes, I doubt that in the hand I would be satisfied with either result, these were just "touch-up" jobs. the reason for peeling the lime before squeezing is that you can extract more juice from a peeled lime than from an unpeeled lime, especially if one does not own a lemon juicer. personally, I like to avoid staining an older blade if it is reasonably free of corrosion and the pamor can still be read, often a wash under running warm water with dishwash detergent, and then a WD40 spray will give an acceptable result. I do not use anything to attempt neutralisation of acids when I do an arsenic stain, I rinse thoroughly under running water & massage with my fingers, I pat dry with a lint free cloth, & I sun dry before oiling. I do use bicarb slurry when I stain with ferric chloride, but we do not use this on tosanaji.