Delux U.S. or British 18th Century Silver Hilt Saber Elephant Ivory Grip

theswordcollector · 14th December 2014, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

If you consider that Woolley Deakin & Co were active between 1800 (or 1803) and 1807 in Edmund Street, Birmingham, some of your questions are already answered.
More likely to have served in the Peninsular war (1807-1814), it certainly belonged to a high rank officer, maybe a General, i would venture, with its silver & ivory hilt.

Thank you very much for the reply. It makes sense. I found a French mounted hilt possibly (from the Peninsular War) similair to this one but in brass. Good insight :-)

http://www.antique-swords.eu/F77-Nap...-Officers.html

Richard G · 16th December 2014, 01:21 PM

The hilt is not typically English, but that does not mean it is not English. However if it is silver, and it is English, then it should bear English hallmarks. If it does not I suspect the the hilt is not English.
Regards
Richard

M ELEY · 17th December 2014, 02:20 AM

Absolutely beautiful sword! The pommel and general hilt shape are French in nature, but I suspect the pattern was generic for any high officer's type swords, much as was customary in the previous century (officers had a pic of which pattern they wanted). Given the time period (1800-15-ish), it seems a little strange that a Brit officer would order a sword 'in the French style'. I know American officers definitely took to some of the French patterns. Wooley & Deakin might have customized an order for such. I know, it was the War of 1812 period and we (yanks) were at war with Britain, but just as back in the Rev War, some of the English sword makers sometimes looked the other way when it came to who was making the order. Its also possible that it slipped into that period prior to us being on England's bad side. I think, despite the French pattern, that it was NOT made for the French by Wooley, because from the last decade of the 18th until the fist quarter of the 19th, England and France decidedly didn't like each other-

E.B. Erickson · 18th December 2014, 12:19 PM

That is a very nice sword!
In spite of the dates for Wooley and Deakin, that blade appears to be from an English 1788 pattern cav sword. This could be an old 1788 blade (Wooley made 1788s when they were the accepted pattern - is this an example of using old stock?) mounted and etched by W&D in the early 1800s to conform to the current fashion. Alternatively, it could be a special blade made to order for a customer.

1788 blades were specified as being 36" long, but I've seen unshortened ones from 34-35".How long is the blade on this sword?

To help nail down the nationality, is there a coat of arms on the blade? Mr. Eley noted that American sword fashion was heavily influenced by French styles: is there an American eagle etched on the blade?

--ElJay

17th December 2014, 02:20 AM	#3
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,076	Absolutely beautiful sword! The pommel and general hilt shape are French in nature, but I suspect the pattern was generic for any high officer's type swords, much as was customary in the previous century (officers had a pic of which pattern they wanted). Given the time period (1800-15-ish), it seems a little strange that a Brit officer would order a sword 'in the French style'. I know American officers definitely took to some of the French patterns. Wooley & Deakin might have customized an order for such. I know, it was the War of 1812 period and we (yanks) were at war with Britain, but just as back in the Rev War, some of the English sword makers sometimes looked the other way when it came to who was making the order. Its also possible that it slipped into that period prior to us being on England's bad side. I think, despite the French pattern, that it was NOT made for the French by Wooley, because from the last decade of the 18th until the fist quarter of the 19th, England and France decidedly didn't like each other- Last edited by M ELEY; 18th December 2014 at 12:10 AM.

16th December 2014, 01:21 PM	#2
Richard G Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 402	The hilt is not typically English, but that does not mean it is not English. However if it is silver, and it is English, then it should bear English hallmarks. If it does not I suspect the the hilt is not English. Regards Richard

18th December 2014, 12:19 PM	#4
E.B. Erickson Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 61	That is a very nice sword! In spite of the dates for Wooley and Deakin, that blade appears to be from an English 1788 pattern cav sword. This could be an old 1788 blade (Wooley made 1788s when they were the accepted pattern - is this an example of using old stock?) mounted and etched by W&D in the early 1800s to conform to the current fashion. Alternatively, it could be a special blade made to order for a customer. 1788 blades were specified as being 36" long, but I've seen unshortened ones from 34-35".How long is the blade on this sword? To help nail down the nationality, is there a coat of arms on the blade? Mr. Eley noted that American sword fashion was heavily influenced by French styles: is there an American eagle etched on the blade? --ElJay