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Old 29th June 2017, 08:33 PM   #1
francantolin
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Default Katzbalger / one hand medieval sword ?

Hello,

I got this sword who must be 17th/18th century ( by the seller )
The hilt look a little like a katzbalger sword. German ??
No stamps or particular ''fantasy'' in details.

The sword is 1m05 long ( 41 inches)
the end of the blade is rounded the two sides of blade are razorsharp,
weight 1,1 kg ( 2,4 pounds).
Is it a common model ?
Thank you
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Old 29th June 2017, 09:06 PM   #2
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I'm looking at the pictures from my phone and can't see much in the age of it but I believe this style was often used in tournaments.

Can you post clearer pictures?
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Old 30th June 2017, 01:18 PM   #3
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Here other pictures,
I hope they are better,
taken during the day ! Holy Daylight !! (cloudy today ! )
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Old 30th June 2017, 01:18 PM   #4
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...
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Old 30th June 2017, 03:42 PM   #5
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There is missing a protection for the thumb at the inner side of the hilt, a fact what is normally not to be found on real swords of the 17. or 18. century. So I think it could be an object of the stock of a theatre. A flat inner side eases wearing of such a sword during action on stage
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Old 30th June 2017, 05:14 PM   #6
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Hello Corrado,
do you say that there should be te the round piece on both side of the hilt ?
Makin a 8 ?
I saw it on most katzbalger sword that's why i Found ''strange'' this one.

For the theatral use, I really don't think so, the blade as I said is of good quality,really sharp and flexible too like the blade of a good old sword,
Unless it would be bloody representations !
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Old 30th June 2017, 05:24 PM   #7
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Found thes one on internet,
one is said to be a swiss katzbalger 1500-1600, no ''8'' protection, only on one side.
The other nothing ?
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Old 30th June 2017, 07:37 PM   #8
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What about these ?
Between 16th and 18th century.

I think the guard shape with/without protection show the period and the different fighting techniques,
( like the s quillons shape in comparison with the straight one.)
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Old 30th June 2017, 10:12 PM   #9
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I'm not sure that I would categorise the sword in the original post as a Katzbalger. The Katzbalger was the iconic sword of the German and Swiss Landsknechts. Usually fairly short and stout with a fullered blade. The quillons had a much more exagerated curve usually forming a figure 8. The hilt also usually featured a pomel splayed in the plane of the blade. I know there are always variations in form but I feel the sword in question is too far from the norm to be called a Katzbalger.
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Old 30th June 2017, 10:38 PM   #10
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Does the absence of a pointed sword tip suggest it might be an executioner's sword?
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Old 1st July 2017, 06:33 AM   #11
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Hello everybody and thank you for your comments,
in the auction, they sold it as a ''Felddegen'' ,
german word for ''field sword''
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Old 1st July 2017, 07:40 AM   #12
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i'd call it a 'side sword', the protective ring is there to protect the back of your hand, and the one on the opposite side is missing to make it easier to wear at your 'side', hence 'side sword'.

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Old 1st July 2017, 03:55 PM   #13
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Protection on the right side is not unusual. In fact, messers had protection (nagel) on the right side only by design. It also facilitates certain fencing techniques as per Leckuchner's manual. As far as rounded tip, in 17th Century Germany, thrusting in a fight was an illegal technique and could land the offender in legal trouble. This type of blade could have been made as to avoid such issues.

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Old 2nd July 2017, 11:48 PM   #14
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Default blunt/rounded tips

Quote:
Originally Posted by Victrix
Does the absence of a pointed sword tip suggest it might be an executioner's sword?


Quite a few swords from various cultures which have seen some combat have tips which are not truly pointed, but are sharpened all round the end. This includes katzbalgers, a number of Scots basket hilts, and even a few Indian and Chinese double edged swords I've handled. I'm sure other collectors on this forum can add others from their experience.

Most likely, the original points were broken or chipped away in battle, and what we see now is just a carrying-along of a field-expedient repair to get the sword back in action. My experience in restoring and polishing old blades tells me that re-grinding the original tip profile on a broken point can involve a lot of labor. Also, a swordsmith friend has pointed out that if the edge is sharp all around the blunted profile, the blade is still deadly!

European executioners' swords (at least the familiar "Germanic" type also used in Switzerland, Bohemia, Poland, and Hungary) have much wider blades than the typical combat broadsword, and the width does not taper, i.e. they are parallel-sided. In fact, one in my collection widens slightly from forte to end by a few millimeters. Their cross-sections are, for specialized functional purposes, a lot more restricted as to form -- invariably they have a short fuller at the forte which usually extends no more than 20% or so of total length, and the remainder is relatively thin and of lenticular-section with no central ridge or flat.
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Old 3rd July 2017, 06:54 PM   #15
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People told me about
''recent ( well ) made '' reproduction .

What do you think ?

I know in Poland they make replicas,
in France some young blacksmith forge ''nice'' reproduction.
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