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Old 27th June 2019, 04:05 AM   #1
Conduit
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Default Wootz blade

Dear members, I would like to kindly request your opinions on this blade which appears to be made of wootz steel.
I am a newbie to ethnographic weapons but this one seems to be someone fishy to me.
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Old 27th June 2019, 10:00 AM   #2
Lee
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Default Not wootz, but...

This blade is made of a coarsely laminated steel in which layers of contrasting alloys have first been forged parallel to the flat faces of the 'proto -' blade and then a design drilled out and the whole then reforged flat and ground to disclose the disturbances created in the layering. It appears to be a good piece of work although I cannot tell how old it is.

Please see
this article elsewhere on the site for a further discussion.
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Old 27th June 2019, 01:09 PM   #3
mahratt
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This is a modern work from India or Pakistan ... The end of the 20-th century ...
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Old 27th June 2019, 03:09 PM   #4
Anthony G.
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I have a collector friend who owns wootz steel persian antique blade bought from christie. Old blade does not looks new, that is one of the sign. And real old wootz steel blade costs a bomb due to the rarity. This blade looks new.........
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Old 27th June 2019, 05:41 PM   #5
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I agree. Many of these "bird's eye damascus" blades are being sold in mass quantities from India (and Pakistan). Even the koftgari is new in style.
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Old 27th June 2019, 09:23 PM   #6
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Unfortunately, like you can learn from the previous comments, this is not a wootz blade, but a pattern welded one.

And it is a very poor quality one. This type of blades are in most cases so soft that they cannot hold an edge and are easily bent.

I suggest you learn about the differences between WOOTZ (the oriental/antique/original "Damascus" steel) and PATTERN WELDED STEEL (what many call "Damascus" these days).

A good point to start would be Leo Figiel's book "On Damascus Steel."
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Old 27th June 2019, 09:46 PM   #7
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I have a similar blade from 20 years ago, when I was also a beginner. I suspect other members here may also have some of these newly made khanjars and/or other items made for the souvenir industry, as these are the kind of items many collectors get in the beginning. You should not feel bad about it at all, but rather use this as an opportunity to learn more about the actual antiques, wootz, etc. - this forum is a great starting place, with plenty of interesting threads on Indian arms.

Teodor
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Old 28th June 2019, 03:31 AM   #8
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Sure, I have one of these with carved stone handle.

People made that from scratch; probably a cottage industry; most likely with hand tools which in itself is impressive.
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Old 28th June 2019, 03:44 AM   #9
Battara
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mariusgmioc
And it is a very poor quality one. This type of blades are in most cases so soft that they cannot hold an edge and are easily bent.


I had no idea they were that soft and that bad.

Figiel's work is a must have - great work.
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Old 28th June 2019, 05:36 AM   #10
ariel
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Conduit,
Please take these comments in a constructive way: nobody is mocking you. Beginners’ mistakes were committed even by the most experienced Forumites. Mistakes are an integral part of any educational process.

Luckily, these modern Indian creations are not expensive and your monetary loss was a fair price for educational experience.

Just remember the rule: buy good books and read them first.

As for Damascus blades, I would recommend one by Manfred Sachse “Damascus Steel”

If you have determined the kind of bladed weapons you would like to collect, feel free to let us know and people here will be glad to direct you to good and reliable sources of knowledge. In a little while you may wish to deepen your expertise and will expand your library. After that, you might notice that for every new weapon you would be buying at least two new books, and then suddenly you yourself will become an expert:-)
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Old 28th June 2019, 11:01 AM   #11
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I haven't read Figel's book, but Lee Jones's paper " Blade Patterns Intrinsic to Steel Edged Weapons" linked in #2 above, is a must read as well.

Regards,
Ed
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