Curious Bichaq Like Flyssa

TVV · 22nd July 2010, 11:23 PM

I was watching a little flyssa knife that finished on eBay during the weekend, item # 160455191672. I am attaching the pictures to this thread.

To me, it looks exactly as a Balkan knife from the early 19th century, in terms of blade and hilt shape. Of course, there is no doubt that this is North African work.

There were ties between North Africa and the Western Balkans, which Dr. Elgood describes in his latest book, but this particular dagger does not strike me as being from the 19th century, it looks more recent to me.

What are your comments?

Regards,
Teodor

ariel · 23rd July 2010, 01:28 AM

I was watching it, too. Curious little bugger. The decorations on the blade are peculiarly flyssa-like, so I do not think it is Balkan. I think the blade is much older than the wooden parts ( purely based on a limited and superficial view of the scabbard and the handle), but somebody took pains carving a perfect match.
Cute.

Jim McDougall · 24th July 2010, 06:47 AM

I agree Teodor, there can be little doubt this is work from Algerian regions where the Kabyle Berber people are located, but it clearly reflects Turkish influences in certain cases. The blade itself does seem a hybridization of Turkish bichaq form, along with the familiar flyssa type neck and drop down blade root.
As noted, the hilt is of bichaq style, and finished in the triangular 'fibula' style motif seen on flyssa scabbards, with this scabbard finished en suite.

The blade, agreed somewhat earlier than the mounts, has motif in which the type of application corresponds to the traditional flyssa, but not in the familiar Kabyle style linear fibula triangles and geometrics. Actually the unusual motif seems to recall in degree that seen on some Turkish yataghans with the line raising up to a rectangular shape then dropping back down, there is usually inscription motif in the rectangle. I think perhaps the craftsman was using Kabyle technique in interpretation of Turkish style motif.

Although Kabylie itself was not actually conquered by the Ottomans, the Kabyle people themselves were widely spread through the northern Algerian regions. With the Ottomans, of course there were distinct contact with many regions and ethnic groups which included the Balkans. We have had great discussions pertaining to the flyssa through the years, and despite many disputes, there is considerable belief that the flyssa itself developed largely from earlier Ottoman yataghans that were deep bellied rather than recurved in the blade.

The obtaining of his sword was a kind of rite of passage for young Kabyle men, and the flyssa was of course the traditional sword of the Kabyles. It is known that the Turkish yataghan was also a very much admired sword by many Kabyles, probably in regions with stronger Ottoman presence.

It does not seem unreasonable to think that certain cross influences in these regions remained present into more modern times, and as in many of these cultures, the craftsmen probably have coupled these influences. This probably brought in variations from other Ottoman regions also.

22nd July 2010, 11:23 PM	#1
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,598	Curious Bichaq Like Flyssa I was watching a little flyssa knife that finished on eBay during the weekend, item # 160455191672. I am attaching the pictures to this thread. To me, it looks exactly as a Balkan knife from the early 19th century, in terms of blade and hilt shape. Of course, there is no doubt that this is North African work. There were ties between North Africa and the Western Balkans, which Dr. Elgood describes in his latest book, but this particular dagger does not strike me as being from the 19th century, it looks more recent to me. What are your comments? Regards, Teodor Attached Images

23rd July 2010, 01:28 AM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I was watching it, too. Curious little bugger. The decorations on the blade are peculiarly flyssa-like, so I do not think it is Balkan. I think the blade is much older than the wooden parts ( purely based on a limited and superficial view of the scabbard and the handle), but somebody took pains carving a perfect match. Cute.

24th July 2010, 06:47 AM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,747	I agree Teodor, there can be little doubt this is work from Algerian regions where the Kabyle Berber people are located, but it clearly reflects Turkish influences in certain cases. The blade itself does seem a hybridization of Turkish bichaq form, along with the familiar flyssa type neck and drop down blade root. As noted, the hilt is of bichaq style, and finished in the triangular 'fibula' style motif seen on flyssa scabbards, with this scabbard finished en suite. The blade, agreed somewhat earlier than the mounts, has motif in which the type of application corresponds to the traditional flyssa, but not in the familiar Kabyle style linear fibula triangles and geometrics. Actually the unusual motif seems to recall in degree that seen on some Turkish yataghans with the line raising up to a rectangular shape then dropping back down, there is usually inscription motif in the rectangle. I think perhaps the craftsman was using Kabyle technique in interpretation of Turkish style motif. Although Kabylie itself was not actually conquered by the Ottomans, the Kabyle people themselves were widely spread through the northern Algerian regions. With the Ottomans, of course there were distinct contact with many regions and ethnic groups which included the Balkans. We have had great discussions pertaining to the flyssa through the years, and despite many disputes, there is considerable belief that the flyssa itself developed largely from earlier Ottoman yataghans that were deep bellied rather than recurved in the blade. The obtaining of his sword was a kind of rite of passage for young Kabyle men, and the flyssa was of course the traditional sword of the Kabyles. It is known that the Turkish yataghan was also a very much admired sword by many Kabyles, probably in regions with stronger Ottoman presence. It does not seem unreasonable to think that certain cross influences in these regions remained present into more modern times, and as in many of these cultures, the craftsmen probably have coupled these influences. This probably brought in variations from other Ottoman regions also.