Philippine cannons

pbleed · 15th March 2022, 08:37 PM

I hope this fine forum will allow me to present – and ask for help with – a couple of not quite “ethnographic” arms. Please help me with assessment of a pair of cannons that were brought to the US in 1899. They were hardly “primitive” when they were produced by Filipino freedom forces, but I wonder if this community can provide insights into their history and background.
Peter

BBJW · 16th March 2022, 04:39 AM

Dimensions and if there are any markings would be helpful. -- bbjw

M ELEY · 16th March 2022, 05:19 AM

The first one looks either Euro or American swivel gun c.19th that has been 'refashioned', a quite common thing for these types. The second appears to be an early Dutch 18th c. model, again modified and the breech cut down? The Dutch pattern was copied by the Malay sailors/pirates in Brunai and Macau as a similar form to the second called a lantaka, but I think yours is the Dutch model-

Rick · 16th March 2022, 05:58 PM

I had a feeling of deja vu about this thread.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...lippine+cannon

fernando · 16th March 2022, 06:37 PM

'Caught you

.

pbleed · 17th March 2022, 05:38 PM

My deep apologies! In trying to dust this project off and get it back and moving toward resolution, I essentially forgot that I did, indeed, seek the advice of this community. Frankly, I think I rather lost contact with the discussion. Together we may all have also discovered that very little is known concretely about the “arms industry” in the pre-modern world. Collectors are good at assembling old weapons, preserving them, assigning them to named categories, but WE have few sources of information on how and why they came to be as they are.
My cannons offer hard evidence that before 1898 SOMEBODY in the Philippine world was able and interested in MAKING artillery that was “modern.” That was a time when a great many folks were familiar with re-purposed firearms (Trapdoor Springfields and Sniders, rolling block Remingtons etc etc). And I THINK somebody in the central Philippines decided to turn that approach to cannons. I can’t find information on that work, but I admire and respect it. Who were those guys?
The other reality is, that between about 1903 and 1915, across the world, the state of artillery design moved in directions that made earlier capabilities of 1898 truly “primitive.”
Again, I apologize for the repetition of my inquiry and I sincerely respect that quality of this community.

pbleed · 17th March 2022, 06:15 PM

Are there any accessible sources on 'Dutch swivel guns?'. I agree that the tube of the 1" gun looks rather planner than other "lantakas" but I don't know what to do with that insight!
Peter

pbleed · 17th March 2022, 06:25 PM

And if anybody wanted to read it, I have DRAFTS of technical descriptions of these gun which I would willingly share. I would recommend them to anyone having trouble falling asleep!
Peter

Rick · 18th March 2022, 05:44 AM

We're all for bringing up subjects for more examination. More people have joined since that post so there may be more info to be gathered now.

15th March 2022, 08:37 PM	#1
pbleed Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Little Rock, Arkansas Posts: 88	Philippine cannons I hope this fine forum will allow me to present – and ask for help with – a couple of not quite “ethnographic” arms. Please help me with assessment of a pair of cannons that were brought to the US in 1899. They were hardly “primitive” when they were produced by Filipino freedom forces, but I wonder if this community can provide insights into their history and background. Peter Attached Images

16th March 2022, 04:39 AM	#2
BBJW Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Idaho, USA Posts: 225	Dimensions and if there are any markings would be helpful. -- bbjw

16th March 2022, 05:19 AM	#3
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,066	The first one looks either Euro or American swivel gun c.19th that has been 'refashioned', a quite common thing for these types. The second appears to be an early Dutch 18th c. model, again modified and the breech cut down? The Dutch pattern was copied by the Malay sailors/pirates in Brunai and Macau as a similar form to the second called a lantaka, but I think yours is the Dutch model-

16th March 2022, 05:58 PM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,262	I had a feeling of deja vu about this thread. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...lippine+cannon

16th March 2022, 06:37 PM	#5
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,641	'Caught you .

17th March 2022, 05:38 PM	#6
pbleed Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Little Rock, Arkansas Posts: 88	My deep apologies! In trying to dust this project off and get it back and moving toward resolution, I essentially forgot that I did, indeed, seek the advice of this community. Frankly, I think I rather lost contact with the discussion. Together we may all have also discovered that very little is known concretely about the “arms industry” in the pre-modern world. Collectors are good at assembling old weapons, preserving them, assigning them to named categories, but WE have few sources of information on how and why they came to be as they are. My cannons offer hard evidence that before 1898 SOMEBODY in the Philippine world was able and interested in MAKING artillery that was “modern.” That was a time when a great many folks were familiar with re-purposed firearms (Trapdoor Springfields and Sniders, rolling block Remingtons etc etc). And I THINK somebody in the central Philippines decided to turn that approach to cannons. I can’t find information on that work, but I admire and respect it. Who were those guys? The other reality is, that between about 1903 and 1915, across the world, the state of artillery design moved in directions that made earlier capabilities of 1898 truly “primitive.” Again, I apologize for the repetition of my inquiry and I sincerely respect that quality of this community.

17th March 2022, 06:15 PM	#7
pbleed Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Little Rock, Arkansas Posts: 88	Are there any accessible sources on 'Dutch swivel guns?'. I agree that the tube of the 1" gun looks rather planner than other "lantakas" but I don't know what to do with that insight! Peter

17th March 2022, 06:25 PM	#8
pbleed Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Little Rock, Arkansas Posts: 88	And if anybody wanted to read it, I have DRAFTS of technical descriptions of these gun which I would willingly share. I would recommend them to anyone having trouble falling asleep! Peter

18th March 2022, 05:44 AM	#9
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,262	We're all for bringing up subjects for more examination. More people have joined since that post so there may be more info to be gathered now.