National exibition of Keris 2012

MitsuWa. · 27th February 2014, 12:57 AM

Hello all,

I have just started studying Keris and came across this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Af3PCzdNCoQ
The Indonesian narrative is over my head, but can any one describe what this competition is all about? Who are the judges? I found it a wonderful video of some of the making process and examples of current work. I found it curious some of the Empu identified work so casually smoking a cigarette at the same time? Perhaps it is a cultural thing. Amazing craftsmanship though.

David · 28th February 2014, 03:08 AM

Welcome to the forum Mitsu.
Thanks for posting this video. I also wish i understood the language, though viewing the video is educational non the less.
It is my understanding that smoking tobacco is indeed very popular in Indonesia so i don't find it surprising really.

Rick · 28th February 2014, 04:35 AM

That's some of the best footage of the process of making that I have seen so far; thanks !

MitsuWa. · 4th March 2014, 11:08 PM

Are Modern made Keris not considered legitimate? Or not desirable by collectors for being too new or expensive, since you are paying a a craftsman a living wage compared to buying an antique?

David · 5th March 2014, 04:51 AM

Forgive the editing note above. I hit "edit" when i meant to hit "quote".

David · 5th March 2014, 04:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MitsuWa.

Are Modern made Keris not considered legitimate? Or not desirable by collectors for being too new or expensive, since you are paying a a craftsman a living wage compared to buying an antique?

Quite the contrary i believe that contemporary keris have a rather large following of collectors both in Jawa and other parts of Indonesia as well as the rest of the world. The value of a keris isn't necessarily based upon antiquity vs. newness either. You can no doubt pay great amounts for certain high level keris of considerable age and very little for lesser quality keris of a similar age. You can likewise find rather cheap, newly made keris as well as brand new masterpieces of the art that can set you back a pretty penny.

Jean · 5th March 2014, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MitsuWa.

Hello all,

I have just started studying Keris and came across this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Af3PCzdNCoQ
The Indonesian narrative is over my head, but can any one describe what this competition is all about? Who are the judges? I found it a wonderful video of some of the making process and examples of current work. I found it curious some of the Empu identified work so casually smoking a cigarette at the same time? Perhaps it is a cultural thing. Amazing craftsmanship though.

Hello Mitsu,
Thank you for showing us this very interesting video which introduces us to the kris making process and to the active Indonesian kris makers and experts.
The purpose of this competition was to award a prize to the makers of the best new krisses (tangguh kamardikan) selected by the jury of experts, among them is Toni Junus who is the author of a very good kris book.
I was surprised to find that the first kris shown in the video is actually part of my collection since more than 5 years but I think I understand why....
I only regret that some essential steps of the making process are not shown, and it is interesting to note the extensive use of power tools as compared to the traditional empus of the past...
Regards

Richard Furrer · 6th March 2014, 04:11 PM

Good video, thank you for posting the link MitsuWa.

As to tools..this shows me that they and the art will most likely survive as they are taking advantage of faster ways of doing the grunt work. I am sure that they would make the Keris entirely by hand with all traditional tools if one were to pay the difference in time/effort for doing so.
We tend to have a romantic idea of craft production. We want to have an item which was worked by a village of masters for a year and lovingly handed down through the generations for us to find and treasure (and if we find it for a bargain price mores the better). The reality may well be that war was coming and they needed to get out two of them a day or the local King said "you will by the end of the week or else..." and you did.

I recall an illuminated image on parchment of a Northern European using a 3 foot rotating grinding wheel on a sword blade...from about 1000AD. I have not looked, but I would bet there is an analog in Indonesia carved in stone relief on a minor temple.

Almost all of the traditional techniques I have seen are the most efficient way of performing a task given the technology of the time and the desired outcome. If you change one of those parameters then so too changes the technique.

Ric

MitsuWa. · 7th March 2014, 01:05 AM

There are a lot of ways of looking at tools. Would you pay your carpenter to walk to the lumberyard to buy your wood for the project because he enjoys the process? In the first world there are people who are of the opinion angle grinders are unacceptable for blade making and one must own a belt grinder, drill press and hydraulic press or power hammer to make laminated blades. Of the smithing videos I have seen Indonesian smiths work with sledge hammers.

David · 7th March 2014, 02:31 PM

Romanticism is all well and good, but i believe that a smart craftsman will use whatever is available that works best for completing that job. Many factors come into play when deciding what is "best".

Richard Furrer · 8th March 2014, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MitsuWa.

There are a lot of ways of looking at tools. Would you pay your carpenter to walk to the lumberyard to buy your wood for the project because he enjoys the process? In the first world there are people who are of the opinion angle grinders are unacceptable for blade making and one must own a belt grinder, drill press and hydraulic press or power hammer to make laminated blades. Of the smithing videos I have seen Indonesian smiths work with sledge hammers.

It maybe that the smiths can not afford a power hammer and human labor is the more cost effective way to go. I have quite an array of tools in mu shop...none of which work when I am not in the shop. Machines do not make the work..they allow me to to do so either faster, larger or with less strain on my body.
I have rarely met other craftsmen who have a greatly different view on this, though I often meet collectors who do.

Question:
Where do the current Empu get the raw materials? The steel mostly. Is there yet a steelmaking from ore tradition in Indonesia?

Ric

MitsuWa. · 8th March 2014, 11:18 PM

That was my point, in a place where a scooter or motorcycle is the family car, smiths can not afford power hammers, stationary power tools, water jet machines etc. Collectors begrudge them the use of angle grinders, hand drills and pencil grinders, where in more industrialized nations, hobbyist think these simple tools to be inadequate.

27th February 2014, 12:57 AM	#1
MitsuWa. Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 22	National exibition of Keris 2012 Hello all, I have just started studying Keris and came across this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Af3PCzdNCoQ The Indonesian narrative is over my head, but can any one describe what this competition is all about? Who are the judges? I found it a wonderful video of some of the making process and examples of current work. I found it curious some of the Empu identified work so casually smoking a cigarette at the same time? Perhaps it is a cultural thing. Amazing craftsmanship though.

4th March 2014, 11:08 PM	#4
MitsuWa. Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 22	Are Modern made Keris not considered legitimate? Or not desirable by collectors for being too new or expensive, since you are paying a a craftsman a living wage compared to buying an antique? Last edited by David; 5th March 2014 at 04:51 AM.

28th February 2014, 03:08 AM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,029	Welcome to the forum Mitsu. Thanks for posting this video. I also wish i understood the language, though viewing the video is educational non the less. It is my understanding that smoking tobacco is indeed very popular in Indonesia so i don't find it surprising really.

28th February 2014, 04:35 AM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,263	That's some of the best footage of the process of making that I have seen so far; thanks !

5th March 2014, 04:51 AM	#5
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,029	Forgive the editing note above. I hit "edit" when i meant to hit "quote".

6th March 2014, 04:11 PM	#8
Richard Furrer Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Sturgeon Bay, Wisconsin Posts: 163	Good video, thank you for posting the link MitsuWa. As to tools..this shows me that they and the art will most likely survive as they are taking advantage of faster ways of doing the grunt work. I am sure that they would make the Keris entirely by hand with all traditional tools if one were to pay the difference in time/effort for doing so. We tend to have a romantic idea of craft production. We want to have an item which was worked by a village of masters for a year and lovingly handed down through the generations for us to find and treasure (and if we find it for a bargain price mores the better). The reality may well be that war was coming and they needed to get out two of them a day or the local King said "you will by the end of the week or else..." and you did. I recall an illuminated image on parchment of a Northern European using a 3 foot rotating grinding wheel on a sword blade...from about 1000AD. I have not looked, but I would bet there is an analog in Indonesia carved in stone relief on a minor temple. Almost all of the traditional techniques I have seen are the most efficient way of performing a task given the technology of the time and the desired outcome. If you change one of those parameters then so too changes the technique. Ric

7th March 2014, 01:05 AM	#9
MitsuWa. Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 22	There are a lot of ways of looking at tools. Would you pay your carpenter to walk to the lumberyard to buy your wood for the project because he enjoys the process? In the first world there are people who are of the opinion angle grinders are unacceptable for blade making and one must own a belt grinder, drill press and hydraulic press or power hammer to make laminated blades. Of the smithing videos I have seen Indonesian smiths work with sledge hammers.

7th March 2014, 02:31 PM	#10
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,029	Romanticism is all well and good, but i believe that a smart craftsman will use whatever is available that works best for completing that job. Many factors come into play when deciding what is "best".

8th March 2014, 11:18 PM	#12
MitsuWa. Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 22	That was my point, in a place where a scooter or motorcycle is the family car, smiths can not afford power hammers, stationary power tools, water jet machines etc. Collectors begrudge them the use of angle grinders, hand drills and pencil grinders, where in more industrialized nations, hobbyist think these simple tools to be inadequate.