Dagger from India

mahratt · 30th July 2010, 06:09 PM

Dear Forumites,
I think this dagger from India. I'd very much like to get your opinions.
Thanks in advance.

mahratt · 31st July 2010, 09:11 AM

Any opinions?

Jens Nordlunde · 31st July 2010, 04:47 PM

Yes it may be Indian, and if so, I would say Deccan or more south.
It is a nice dagger, how is the blade?

Jim McDougall · 31st July 2010, 06:28 PM

I would suggest a bit different direction more to the north for this interesting knife, although the feline head and bubris naturally bring to mind Tipu Sultan in the south.
The hafted blade reminds me of the Khyber knife and choora of Afghan regions while the blade is reminiscent of the pesh kabz with its recurve in the blade. The clear absence of armor piercing point and reinforcement of course negate that identification in degree.

For some reason the lined stylized mane and overall effect of the lionhead remind me of the carving skills of the Kalash tribal people, whose remaining numbers are situated in the Chitral Province of Pakistan Northwest Frontier.
These people are of ancestry to the Kafirs, whose lands once known as Kafiristan are now known as Nuristan, and where those there were forced to subjugate to conversion to Islam by Abdur Rahman Khan of Afghanistan in the 1890s. Those who remain on the opposite side of the Durand Line in Pakistan still live remotely and practice thier animist religion. They are excellent carvers, and thier homes and material culture are decorated accordingly.

Though I cannot yet find direct substantiation, it seems that lionhead daggers are known in these general regions in the north, and my inclination is as noted toward the Kalash people of Chitral.

Attached are map showing Chitral region in red (interestingly the people are known as Kalash ala or Red Kalash to Afghans), Kalash metalwork, Abdur Rahman Khan, images of what I believe are repros but reflect the lionhead theme mentioned. The knife shown is the choora from Afghan regions, showing the hafted blade as noted.

Jens Nordlunde · 2nd August 2010, 01:51 PM

Hi Jim, maybe you are right, although I am not convinced yet

.

Jim McDougall · 2nd August 2010, 02:17 PM

Thanks Jens, and its just my theory, as always hoping somebody will come up with something proving otherwise. Once various theories are looked at and the supporting evidence examined, then it can evaluated and we can all be convinced one way or another.
So I guess we can wait and see, who knows maybe a discussion will ensue?

mahratt · 2nd August 2010, 07:10 PM

Jim and Jens of thanks big for your opinion! I am very grateful!

30th July 2010, 06:09 PM	#1
mahratt Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Russia Posts: 1,042	Dagger from India Dear Forumites, I think this dagger from India. I'd very much like to get your opinions. Thanks in advance.

31st July 2010, 06:28 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,746	I would suggest a bit different direction more to the north for this interesting knife, although the feline head and bubris naturally bring to mind Tipu Sultan in the south. The hafted blade reminds me of the Khyber knife and choora of Afghan regions while the blade is reminiscent of the pesh kabz with its recurve in the blade. The clear absence of armor piercing point and reinforcement of course negate that identification in degree. For some reason the lined stylized mane and overall effect of the lionhead remind me of the carving skills of the Kalash tribal people, whose remaining numbers are situated in the Chitral Province of Pakistan Northwest Frontier. These people are of ancestry to the Kafirs, whose lands once known as Kafiristan are now known as Nuristan, and where those there were forced to subjugate to conversion to Islam by Abdur Rahman Khan of Afghanistan in the 1890s. Those who remain on the opposite side of the Durand Line in Pakistan still live remotely and practice thier animist religion. They are excellent carvers, and thier homes and material culture are decorated accordingly. Though I cannot yet find direct substantiation, it seems that lionhead daggers are known in these general regions in the north, and my inclination is as noted toward the Kalash people of Chitral. Attached are map showing Chitral region in red (interestingly the people are known as Kalash ala or Red Kalash to Afghans), Kalash metalwork, Abdur Rahman Khan, images of what I believe are repros but reflect the lionhead theme mentioned. The knife shown is the choora from Afghan regions, showing the hafted blade as noted. Attached Images Last edited by Jim McDougall; 31st July 2010 at 06:40 PM.

2nd August 2010, 01:51 PM	#5
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,713	Hi Jim, maybe you are right, although I am not convinced yet.

31st July 2010, 09:11 AM	#2
mahratt Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Russia Posts: 1,042	Any opinions?

31st July 2010, 04:47 PM	#3
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,713	Yes it may be Indian, and if so, I would say Deccan or more south. It is a nice dagger, how is the blade?

2nd August 2010, 02:17 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,746	Thanks Jens, and its just my theory, as always hoping somebody will come up with something proving otherwise. Once various theories are looked at and the supporting evidence examined, then it can evaluated and we can all be convinced one way or another. So I guess we can wait and see, who knows maybe a discussion will ensue?

2nd August 2010, 07:10 PM	#7
mahratt Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Russia Posts: 1,042	Jim and Jens of thanks big for your opinion! I am very grateful!