strange Portuguese (?) sabre

corrado26 · 24th July 2016, 01:38 PM

I got mailed the following fotos of a probably or eventually Portuguese sabre with a very special hilt and a blade marked "real frabrica 1659". Is anyone here able to confirm the Portuguese origine? Or could this be a phantasy-item?
Thanks
corrado26

fernando · 24th July 2016, 01:48 PM

REAL FABRICA is written the same way both portuguese as in spanish (castilian). I would say this is an awkward fantasy made in Spain.

carlos · 24th July 2016, 03:22 PM

What a curious piece !!
Is possible after REAL FABRICA come the word Toledo?
Very interesting piece

Carlos

Fernando K · 25th July 2016, 12:10 PM

hELLO

om spanish REAL FABRICA DE..............

Fernando K

fernando · 25th July 2016, 12:44 PM

The Real Fabrica de Espadas was founded by Carlos III in 1761, in the old Toledo Coin Mint, much later than the date inscribed in this specimen ... which i still suggest it is a decorative item

.

Jim McDougall · 25th July 2016, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

The Real Fabrica de Espadas was founded by Carlos III in 1761, in the old Toledo Coin Mint, much later than the date inscribed in this specimen ... which i still suggest it is a decorative item

.

I totally agree this 'phantastic' sword seems flamboyant enough to be something decorative. But I wonder, the script with date, might that be something commemorative?
Recently I have been working on Masonic situations with various edged weapons, and it seems that in the case of the swords used by the 'tylers' as well as general members in rituals and ceremonies, were often rather flamboyant. Some to the point of 'fantasy' I suppose.

Is it possible this might be some ceremonial item from perhaps latter 19th century that might have been from the many military orders or fraternal groups either Masonic or associated?

These often bizarre pieces (often with skull and crossbones; hand type hilts; unusual and complex hilts with symbolic ornamentation etc) seem to be relatively unrecorded (in the supposed secrecy of these groups).

Aside from these, there are the cases of theatrical props, which were often produced to carry certain themes in the characters they were used by .

Just thoughts of possibilities,

24th July 2016, 01:38 PM	#1
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,166	strange Portuguese (?) sabre I got mailed the following fotos of a probably or eventually Portuguese sabre with a very special hilt and a blade marked "real frabrica 1659". Is anyone here able to confirm the Portuguese origine? Or could this be a phantasy-item? Thanks corrado26 Attached Images

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24th July 2016, 01:48 PM	#2
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,636	REAL FABRICA is written the same way both portuguese as in spanish (castilian). I would say this is an awkward fantasy made in Spain.

24th July 2016, 03:22 PM	#3
carlos Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 731	What a curious piece !! Is possible after REAL FABRICA come the word Toledo? Very interesting piece Carlos

25th July 2016, 12:10 PM	#4
Fernando K Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 663	hELLO om spanish REAL FABRICA DE.............. Fernando K

25th July 2016, 12:44 PM	#5
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,636	The Real Fabrica de Espadas was founded by Carlos III in 1761, in the old Toledo Coin Mint, much later than the date inscribed in this specimen ... which i still suggest it is a decorative item .