Royal Armouries image collection.

[estcrh]

The Royal Armouries images are back online, here are some links. As with the Met's collection, the Royal Armouries have some amazing items, huge amounts of armor and weapons, and just like the Met, many of their items have still not been photographed, others are so badly photographed that the images are not much use, and there are the usual description mistakes, you would think that such a prestigious institution would get that part right at least.

Persia https://collections.royalarmouries.o...sort=relevance

Turkey https://collections.royalarmouries.o...sort=relevance

India https://collections.royalarmouries.o...sort=relevance

Dagger (khanjar) (1700-1799)
with a three lobed pommel.

Place: Persia

[Kubur]

Hi Strech
You are amazing to find pictures!
Very useful and first mistake they did it's a tiger dagger from Northern India.
Best,
Kubur

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Kubur

Hi Strech
You are amazing to find pictures!
Very useful and first mistake they did it's a tiger dagger from Northern India.
Best,
Kubur

Commonly known as an Indian tiger tooth jambiya but for some reason they seem to have labeled almost all of their jambiya and khanjar as khanjar.

Here is another very weird thing they have done with several images, they surround the item being photographed with pieces of black paper? This is an Ottoman kilij, but they have labeled it as a

Sword (kilic) (1700-1799) kilic Persian blade European mounts 19th.century

you can see how it looks on their site and after I edited both images extensively, I just do not see any "European mounts" though and no evidence that I can see which would make the blade "Persian". Further down they describe the blade this way

the blade of the sword is single edge, curved widening slightly and becoming double edged near the point in the turkish manner.

[Kubur]

Oh i can tell you why they did these mistakes.
First the decoration is ottoman baroque, clearly with European influences, but it's not European. Second for a lot of people all wootz blade is Persian.
It could be...

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Kubur

Oh i can tell you why they did these mistakes.
First the decoration is ottoman baroque, clearly with European influences, but it's not European. Second for a lot of people all wootz blade is Persian.
It could be...

But this is the Royal Armouries, they have a lot of people with experience there, they never mention "Ottoman" either. Here is another one,

Sabre and scabbard (1615-1635) Mameluke-hilted sabre and scabbard Place: Turkey

I think if I described my kilij as a "Mameluk hilted sabre" I might get some laughs.

[estcrh]

They do have some nice weapons and armor though. Here is another kilij, this one clearly has a Persian blade

Sword (kilic) (1772) By Ismail son of Asad Allah Isfahani. Place: Turkey

....at least be consistant!!

[estcrh]

Here is an interesting sword...

German blade dated 1697; Indian hilt 18th century

....is this an "Indian hilt" or a European hilt with Indian decoration?

[estcrh]

Looks like a sossun to me

Sword (khanda) (1771-1799) Place: India, Gujerat

[estcrh]

Here is a real interesting one.........

Sword (talwar) (1800-1899) Place: Germany

Do they even have the right sword here, it says this sword has a "knuckle bow" and "black leather" covered scabbard????

https://collections.royalarmouries.o...ect-21372.html

The blade is single edged and slightly curved, with two narrow fullers beside the flat back in which there are traces of decoration. The ricasso has some burnished zig-zag decoration on a dull ground. The russet iron hilt is of Indo-Muslim type, with a small dish pommel, swelling grip, short quillons, a knuckle bow, and a pierced swivel loop on the pommel button. It is decorated in silver koftgari with scrolling foliage and flowers. The scabbard is of wood covered in black leather with an iron chape.

[estcrh]

Here is another glaring mistake, this is a "tsukubo" but is it not a "sode garami", that is another type of tool used for catching / holding criminals, there are three such tools which together are called torimono sandōgu (three tools of arresting).

Catch pole (sode garami) (1800-1899) of the type called tsukubo Place: Japan

[David R]

Speaking from personal experience ( one month data inputting the Littlecote collection for the RA) there is something of dislocation between the knowledgeable and the administration at the museum. This is also a huge collection, many of the labels went on a very long time ago, up to a century and a half in some cases, and it will be a long time before anyone gets round to changing them. The Littlecote collection was acquired more than 20 years before I was given the job of putting it on their computer database. they have a huge collection, they are doing their best at a time of falling budgets and a lack of interest from the the presiding authority.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by David R

Speaking from personal experience ( one month data inputting the Littlecote collection for the RA) there is something of dislocation between the knowledgeable and the administration at the museum. This is also a huge collection, many of the labels went on a very long time ago, up to a century and a half in some cases, and it will be a long time before anyone gets round to changing them. The Littlecote collection was acquired more than 20 years before I was given the job of putting it on their computer database. they have a huge collection, they are doing their best at a time of falling budgets and a lack of interest from the the presiding authority.

David, the Met has many dubious descriptions also, I am willing to bet that both institutions have not even tried very hard to find help or solve this problem. The images that they have of the items held in their collections are valuable resources, I am pointing out that they can not be trusted as far as descriptions go, many people assume that these famous museums are infallible but they are really not doing a very good job in making the items they hold available to the public.

Many people can not travel to these museums and the online images are the only way they have to gain access to what is in them, other people base their visits to these museums on what they know in advance that they will see, it is in their best interest to figure out how to speed up the process, there are many ways to do this such as with students via an intern program.

[ariel]

There are some errors that are so stupid that I do not want even to mention them...
Well, I will:-)
Object XXVI B.144 : a dagger labeled as all-steel arrow.
XXVID.79: a Firangi called dagger( peshkabz)

These are so stupid that one cannot even suspect professional errors.

I guess they just quickly hired an undergraduate student or an equivalent to do the job and this kid had randomly matched pics with descriptions. That's what one gets for a minimal wage:-)



Budget cuts:-))))))))))

[Miguel]

Originally Posted by estcrh

David, the Met has many dubious descriptions also, I am willing to bet that both institutions have not even tried very hard to find help or solve this problem. The images that they have of the items held in their collections are valuable resources, I am pointing out that they can not be trusted as far as descriptions go, many people assume that these famous museums are infallible but they are really not doing a very good job in making the items they hold available to the public.

Many people can not travel to these museums and the online images are the only way they have to gain access to what is in them, other people base their visits to these museums on what they know in advance that they will see, it is in their best interest to figure out how to speed up the process, there are many ways to do this such as with students via an intern program.

Well said Estcrh but how embarrassing for the RA, lets hope that these shortcomings are bought to their attention and that they take the necessary action to correct these errors which as Ariel points out in some instances so stupid, it just does not make sense.
Miguel