Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Keris Warung Kopi
User Name
Password
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 13th April 2017, 05:38 AM   #1
kayoba84
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Shah Alam, Malaysia
Posts: 8
Default Ivory Hulu Tajong

Greetings guys, I am a new member, an amateur collector of Keris and general blades. To start of, just wanted to share few pics of one of my favourite pieces, A Tajong Keris with Ivory Hilt. Those familiar may be able to recognise the handiwork.

I have read through the forum guides and instructions but do let me me know of any mistakes in my posting and the ones to come.

Good to make all of your acquaintances.

Regards.
Attached Images
      
kayoba84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th April 2017, 05:29 PM   #2
mariusgmioc
Member
 
mariusgmioc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 1,616
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kayoba84
Greetings guys, I am a new member, an amateur collector of Keris and general blades. To start of, just wanted to share few pics of one of my favourite pieces, A Tajong Keris with Ivory Hilt. Those familiar may be able to recognise the handiwork.

I have read through the forum guides and instructions but do let me me know of any mistakes in my posting and the ones to come.

Good to make all of your acquaintances.

Regards.


This looks brand new. Are you sure it is ivory?
mariusgmioc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th April 2017, 06:27 PM   #3
David
Keris forum moderator
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 6,203
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mariusgmioc
This looks brand new. Are you sure it is ivory?

It is undoubtably current era work Marius. As our new member Kayoba (welcome to the forum btw) suggests, some people here my well recognize the artist from this work. Ivory is still worked in certain parts of the world and hopefully when it is it is obtained from legal sources.
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th April 2017, 06:32 PM   #4
Rick
Member
 
Rick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 5,896
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by kayoba84
Greetings guys, I am a new member, an amateur collector of Keris and general blades. To start of, just wanted to share few pics of one of my favourite pieces, A Tajong Keris with Ivory Hilt. Those familiar may be able to recognise the handiwork.

I have read through the forum guides and instructions but do let me me know of any mistakes in my posting and the ones to come.

Good to make all of your acquaintances.

Regards.


Carved by Nik Rashideen possibly?

Welcome to the forums Kayoba.
Rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th April 2017, 06:44 PM   #5
GIO
Member
 
GIO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 263
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mariusgmioc
This looks brand new. Are you sure it is ivory?


Welcome to the Forum, Kayoba84 !
It is seldom possible to give an educated guess from a photo, but I am afraid Marius and David are right. All pieces of this keris are stilistically correct, and seems to be quite new. The material of the perfectly shaped hilt does not SEEM ivory, but plastic. To be sure, try with a hot needle.
GIO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th April 2017, 07:40 PM   #6
mariusgmioc
Member
 
mariusgmioc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 1,616
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GIO
Welcome to the Forum, Kayoba84 !
It is seldom possible to give an educated guess from a photo, but I am afraid Marius and David are right. All pieces of this keris are stilistically correct, and seems to be quite new. The material of the perfectly srhaped hilt does not SEEM ivory, but plastic. To be sure, try with a hot needle.


The hot needle test does not work on cetain ivory immitations (bakelite?). I tried it myself on a plastic ivory immitation and it behaved exactly like ivory: was not affected by the hot needle at all.

So, in the end, I believe the best test remains a trained eye... and touch.

Try to look for specific signs of ivory: Schreger lines, minuscule cracks, minute variations of colouring, etc. Remember that ivory is a natural material and it is not perfectly homogeneous. Elephant ivory has also a specific translucence when highly polished (but good plastics also have it).

I suggest you remove the hilt and examine the pesi hole. It is there, inside the hole, where you may try the hot needle test.

Last edited by mariusgmioc : 14th April 2017 at 07:55 PM.
mariusgmioc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th April 2017, 07:51 PM   #7
Jean
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,515
Default

"Resin" sounds nicer than "plastic"....
The pics are quite poor (sorry Kayoba) but I seem to distinguish some natural defects and cracks so I tend to believe that this recently made hilt is from elephant ivory. Furthermore it looks too finely carved for a resin hilt?
Regards
Jean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th April 2017, 08:01 PM   #8
Jean
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,515
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mariusgmioc
The hot needle test does not work on cetain ivory immitations (bakelite?). I tried it myself on a plastic ivory immitation and it behaved exactly like ivory: was not affected by the hot needle at all.

So, in the end, I believe the best test remains a trained eye... and touch.


If like myself you do not hesitate to take some controlled risks with your krisses, gently drill or grind the peksi hole and smell it...
Regards
Jean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th April 2017, 08:17 PM   #9
mariusgmioc
Member
 
mariusgmioc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 1,616
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean
If like myself you do not hesitate to take some controlled risks with your krisses, gently drill or grind the peksi hole and smell it...
Regards


Exactly! Even mild polishing of ivory (with 7000 grit) will give away the specific "dentist" smell.
mariusgmioc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th April 2017, 12:04 AM   #10
David
Keris forum moderator
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 6,203
Default

While i do understand why someone might suspect this hilt is resin based upon the photos i personally would never make such a judgement given the evidence available. By that i mean that these photos are not good enough to make any definitive judgments. Like Rick i also suspected that Kayoba was alluding to Nik Rashideen as the possible carver. If that is so it sounds like he has some reason to believe so. I would love to hear how he came by this keris so that perhaps these questions can be answered with more than these inadequate photographs.

Last edited by David : 15th April 2017 at 05:27 PM.
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th April 2017, 04:39 AM   #11
kayoba84
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Shah Alam, Malaysia
Posts: 8
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by David
While i do understand why someone might suspect this hilt is resin based upon the photos i personally would never make such a judgement given the evidence available. By that i mean that these photos are not good enough to make any definitive judgments. Like Rick i also suspected that Kayoba was alluding to Nik Rashideen as the possible carver. If that is so it sounds like he has some reason to believe so. I would love to hear how he came by this keris so that perhaps these questions can be answered with more than these inadequate photographs.


Good day guys. Sorry for the late response, was away for the weekend. Rick and David both guessed correctly. My Name is Nik Aziz and the carver was Nik Rashidin, my late uncle.

As mentioned, I am an amateur collector, and i have in my possession a few pieces from his old collection, as well as a few new hilts and sapirs for my old blades crafted by his brother, Rashidee or Abe Dee as he is known amongst the older generation collectors.

Yes, the hilt is ivory, from my late uncle's old ivory stock. Will post pics of few othe pieces from my collection, and will try to post betterr pics from the piece I posted previously.
kayoba84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th April 2017, 10:15 AM   #12
Dayaktribe
Member
 
Dayaktribe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 11
Default

Nice looking Tajong with very nice carving.
Dayaktribe is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 01:47 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.