MI yatagans pics help please?

Tim Simmons · 27th June 2008, 12:45 PM

Does anybody have or can provide/post pictures of late 19th century military issue Ottoman yatagans. Possibly carried by Turko/German troops in the Sudan and East Africa. So I can make some comparison to a native weapon. This enquiry is inspired by baganing_balyan's thread on possible Ottoman infuence in the Philippines.

TVV · 27th June 2008, 04:19 PM

In her book on Ottoman Arms, Astvatsaturian finishes the section on yataghans with a page of a "Standard Issue Military Yataghan", factory made from the second half of the 19th century.
There were also certain yataghan-like hangers in the Austrian army in the 19th century as well. However, I am not aware of such a model in the German army, but would be interestin to see if someone has a picture, ideally a picture of troops with the weapon.

Tim Simmons · 27th June 2008, 06:44 PM

Thanks for that Teo. I cannot pursue this thread for a further 3 days because material is on ebay. When it has finnished I hope to present an interesting hypothesis. Any more info on yatagan like MI knives of the end of the 19th century would be most helpful.

Tim Simmons · 21st January 2009, 06:57 PM

Forgot all about this thread I wanted to explore. Sadly my PC was all gumed up and I no longer have a picture of the item on ebay that got me thinking. Now look at this link, can anybody see an version of yatagan? or am I just being really silly. Lets just think about this sword. It does not fit African patterns. I suggest that we might be looking at not just a Mauser rifle inspired overall form, cearly shown in the scabbard but a Yatagan cutting weapon. Turkish and perhaps Eygptian troops would have carried both weapons into the south Soudan and Turkish troops in German East Africa. If I appear nuts just ignore me and I might just go away.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=mauser

TVV · 21st January 2009, 08:15 PM

As far as I remember, the Egyptian army of the late 19th century had Remington rifles with Yataghan bayonets, which were almost completely coppied from the French Chassepot Mle 1866 rifles. I am not sure of the patterns used by the British in 1890s, but the snyders and the martinis also had yataghan shaped bayonets. I also do not know of the German bayonets used by German collonial troops in East Africa during WW1, but to me the shape of the sword in the Mauser inspired scabbard looks more like one of those so called "butcher bayonets". Of course, mine ramblings here perhaps also make very little sense, if any.

Regards,
Teo

Tim Simmons · 22nd January 2009, 09:47 AM

Western involvement in Africa is little discussed today except when things go pear shaped aka "Black Hawk Down"

I am fascinated by pre ww1 European meddling in Africa. The reason I wondered about a possible Turkish/Egyptian yatagan influence is based on the 1889 appointment of Hermann Von Wissmann to suppress rebelion in German East Africa. The formation of the "wissmanntruppe" formed from Sudanese and Zulu "southern African" Askaris. Turkish officers and nco's were needed to communicate with the Sudanese. I believe the wissmanntruppe and the schutztruppe did carry mauser carbine. I do not know the extent of Turkish involvement but it is interesting in relation to the blade discussed. This link is well worth reading.
http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache...nk&cd=10&gl=uk

Tim Simmons · 22nd January 2009, 02:46 PM

The Anglo/Egyptian army used the mauser carbine. Would a yatagan be used be Egyptian elements. When dissbanded many of Wissmann's askaris came from this army.

27th June 2008, 12:45 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	MI yatagans pics help please? Does anybody have or can provide/post pictures of late 19th century military issue Ottoman yatagans. Possibly carried by Turko/German troops in the Sudan and East Africa. So I can make some comparison to a native weapon. This enquiry is inspired by baganing_balyan's thread on possible Ottoman infuence in the Philippines.

27th June 2008, 04:19 PM	#2
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,599	In her book on Ottoman Arms, Astvatsaturian finishes the section on yataghans with a page of a "Standard Issue Military Yataghan", factory made from the second half of the 19th century. There were also certain yataghan-like hangers in the Austrian army in the 19th century as well. However, I am not aware of such a model in the German army, but would be interestin to see if someone has a picture, ideally a picture of troops with the weapon. Attached Images

27th June 2008, 06:44 PM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	Thanks for that Teo. I cannot pursue this thread for a further 3 days because material is on ebay. When it has finnished I hope to present an interesting hypothesis. Any more info on yatagan like MI knives of the end of the 19th century would be most helpful.

21st January 2009, 06:57 PM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	Forgot all about this thread I wanted to explore. Sadly my PC was all gumed up and I no longer have a picture of the item on ebay that got me thinking. Now look at this link, can anybody see an version of yatagan? or am I just being really silly. Lets just think about this sword. It does not fit African patterns. I suggest that we might be looking at not just a Mauser rifle inspired overall form, cearly shown in the scabbard but a Yatagan cutting weapon. Turkish and perhaps Eygptian troops would have carried both weapons into the south Soudan and Turkish troops in German East Africa. If I appear nuts just ignore me and I might just go away. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=mauser

21st January 2009, 08:15 PM	#5
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,599	As far as I remember, the Egyptian army of the late 19th century had Remington rifles with Yataghan bayonets, which were almost completely coppied from the French Chassepot Mle 1866 rifles. I am not sure of the patterns used by the British in 1890s, but the snyders and the martinis also had yataghan shaped bayonets. I also do not know of the German bayonets used by German collonial troops in East Africa during WW1, but to me the shape of the sword in the Mauser inspired scabbard looks more like one of those so called "butcher bayonets". Of course, mine ramblings here perhaps also make very little sense, if any. Regards, Teo

22nd January 2009, 09:47 AM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	Western involvement in Africa is little discussed today except when things go pear shaped aka "Black Hawk Down" I am fascinated by pre ww1 European meddling in Africa. The reason I wondered about a possible Turkish/Egyptian yatagan influence is based on the 1889 appointment of Hermann Von Wissmann to suppress rebelion in German East Africa. The formation of the "wissmanntruppe" formed from Sudanese and Zulu "southern African" Askaris. Turkish officers and nco's were needed to communicate with the Sudanese. I believe the wissmanntruppe and the schutztruppe did carry mauser carbine. I do not know the extent of Turkish involvement but it is interesting in relation to the blade discussed. This link is well worth reading. http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache...nk&cd=10&gl=uk

22nd January 2009, 02:46 PM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	The Anglo/Egyptian army used the mauser carbine. Would a yatagan be used be Egyptian elements. When dissbanded many of Wissmann's askaris came from this army.