Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > European Armoury
FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 19th December 2021, 04:43 PM   #1
broadaxe
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 332
Default

The sword is indeed a puzzle. I think the etched decoration has been added later on sometimes after the sword went out of service, maybe to perform as a bearing arm - note the huge size.
The guard is weird, but I'm not ruling it out totally. Overall construction appears to be better than usual historismus biedenhanders, and on top of all, the weight vs. length and width ratio is just amazing, I would expect a historismus to be at least twice as heavy.
broadaxe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th December 2021, 10:05 PM   #2
CSinTX
Member
 
CSinTX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 233
Default

Thanks for the thoughts from everyone. Ive added some more pics. Unfortunately I can not see where the parrying lugs attach to the blade without damaging the leather.

I feel very confident that the sword itself is good. The patina is right, forging lines, highest quality blade, weight, etc. The markings on the pommel match that on the guard.

But I know very little of how stampings, engravings, etc would have been done in a blade. The outer edge of the decoration, that has been mechanically applied, how would this have been done? Could it be done on metal that was not hot (added later)? Or would it need to be done at time of manufacture? There is a distinct grove cut around the outer edge. Ive marked this in green in the final picture.

I like to imagine that maybe this was a bodyguards weapon rather than a piece for the field. This might explain the combination of it being an obviously highly lethal weapon as well as unique and decorated.
Attached Images
      
CSinTX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th December 2021, 09:13 AM   #3
ulfberth
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 382
Default

Hi Casey, its done with a combination of etching, the center with a punch and fine engraving in the shield and crown.
in the Rijksmuseum depot in Amsterdam there is a blade of a two handed sword, with a stamp which to me looks like Italian.
Interistingly the blade is decorated with similar type of small circle's just as on the pommel and crossguard of your sword, unfortunately we cant see the crossguard because its missing.
kind regards
Ulfberth
Attached Images
   
ulfberth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th December 2021, 12:06 PM   #4
cornelistromp
Member
 
cornelistromp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,057
Default

the outerline of the engraving the pommel and the guard were done with a hammer and chisel, this was not unusual. see example.
everything looks very good just because the design of the hilt, guard and pommel, is extremely strange makes me doubt.


what I find odd: the shape of the pommel, the diamond-shaped ends of the guard, reminds me a bit of a cleymore.
The ringguards have an unusual outline shape and are forged towards the ends at the cross, and not from the center going outwards.
The small rings on the inside are usually forged on the center block, apart from the outer ring.
The two curls in the center of the quillons are "perfect" in shape, like the relief work on the bottom of the guard, most of the 16thc two-handers show coarse forged ironwork.

The flat diamond-shaped blade did occur in earlier two-handers around the middle of the 16th century.
in the 16th century pareer thorns were forged from the ricasso , while in the 19th century these thorns were often forged and attached separately.

the blades of twohanders later in the 16th century, in combination with this type of pareer thorn, became flat or flat hexagonal, while the blades with thorns pointing towards the hilt are still diamond-shaped.

To me it's kind of a fantasy piece but I can't tell if it was made around/before 1600 or in the 19th century.

best,
Attached Images
 
cornelistromp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th December 2021, 01:05 PM   #5
corrado26
Member
 
corrado26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Black Forest, Germany
Posts: 1,171
Default

If this sword is of the 16th century is anybody able to tell me how and with which tools this pommel was made without some machinery?
corrado26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th January 2022, 12:16 PM   #6
NeilUK
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Scotland
Posts: 122
Default

I have only just seen this post and agree with the comments on the engraving and chiseling. However I am totally amazed by the style of the hilt - grip, pommel and crossguard. In the course of researching my book I have examined dozens of 2-handed swords in the flesh, so to speak, and hundreds more in photos and have seen nothing like this. The grip is too long proportionally and the midpoint baluster is too fanciful. The pommel and crossguard are just weird even if the actual workmanship is good. For its length as a parade sword it is too light in weight. My opinion is that it is an elaborate attempt to create a 17th century 2-hander, well constructed but horribly inaccurate unless it was intended to be a fantasy sword. Probably 19th century.
Neil
NeilUK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th January 2022, 07:16 AM   #7
corrado26
Member
 
corrado26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Black Forest, Germany
Posts: 1,171
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilUK View Post
Probably 19th century.
Neil
thank you
corrado26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th January 2022, 05:27 AM   #8
Philip
Member
 
Philip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: California
Posts: 1,036
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by corrado26 View Post
If this sword is of the 16th century is anybody able to tell me how and with which tools this pommel was made without some machinery?
The relatively coarse execution of the design tells me that it was chiseled by hand. Looks like a typical level of craftsmanship for the genre, place, and time.
Philip is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:19 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.