Another tulwar

fernando · 17th November 2007, 10:17 PM

I am not sure on the seriousness of this one, on what touches
the hilt, which is nickel plated (chromed ?) brass. The seller says it's 18th century, but that could be his story.
The blade looks fine, with its three fullers, the top one ending where the false edge starts. Some "intentional" dots at the forte, mostly under the langet, look like some kind of mark.
I think i see some activity on the steel ... could it be wootz?
The scabbard is recent. Seller says 19th century, but i wonder.
I will be glad to receive some coments.
Thanks
Fernando

katana · 17th November 2007, 10:29 PM

Hi Fernando

,
Sorry to say ...but I am certain it is not wootz

A lot of Tulwars have similar forge patterning but the majority are not 'pleasing to the eye' when etched. How thick is the spine?

Regards David

fernando · 17th November 2007, 10:42 PM

Hi David
Thanks for reacting

.
The spine is hardly 5 m/m.
I know nothing about wootz. I have made such question because i distinctly see the reflexes of a low intensity "waving" on the blade edges, as if it were a Japanese blade (hamon?) ... or some sort of that. Whatever it is, it sure is not plain

.
Fernando

RSWORD · 17th November 2007, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

Hi David
Thanks for reacting

.
The spine is hardly 5 m/m.
I know nothing about wootz. I have made such question because i distinctly see the reflexes of a low intensity "waving" on the blade edges, as if it were a Japanese blade (hamon?) ... or some sort of that. Whatever it is, it sure is not plain

.
Fernando

It is not uncommon for Indian blades to have this wavy "hamon" effect along the edge and this is due to a tripartite blade construction where you have a high carbon edge inserted between softer "cheeks" of pattern welded steel. Heat treatment along the edge will give this wavy undulating effect and I wouldn't be surprised if the blade is quite sharp or would take a good edge. The blade seems a good one given that construction plus the fullers are crisply done which shows a bit more attention to details.

fernando · 17th November 2007, 11:43 PM

Thank you for your knowledgeable coments, Rick.
I am glad you got my meaning.
It is indeed a sharp edged blade. No wonder the seller kept emphasizing its quality, as he knew what he was offering.
Probably if i was at home, with more conditions and a camera tripod, these efects would be more noticeable. But i trust that you saw them in the present pictures.
Thanks again
Fernando

spiral · 17th November 2007, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

I am not sure on the seriousness of this one, on what touches
the hilt, which is nickled (chromed ?) brass. The seller says it's 18th century, but that could be his story.

Commercial Nickel plating started in Europe about 1850, so mid 19th century is the earliest possible date. {IMHO]

spiral

fernando · 17th November 2007, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiral

Commercial Nickel plating started in Europe about 1850, so mid 19th century is the earliest possible date. {IMHO]
spiral

Thank you Jonathan.
I suspected so. I wonder wow quick did the nickel plating process reached India. -That would count also.
Fernando

fernando · 18th November 2007, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

Thank you Jonathan.
I suspected so. I wonder wow quick did the nickel plating process reached India. -That would count also.
Fernando

I was thinking ... the hilt could have being plated long after being originaly cast ... not necessarily ... just measuring the possibilities.

Jens Nordlunde · 18th November 2007, 03:06 PM

Fernando,

What should be said about the tulwar has been said already. The square on top of the hilt is however strange. I don’t remember having seen such a square before. The tulwar may not be very old, but I don’t think it is as bad as many other we see, and it does have a nice looking blade with nice fullers like Rick says. It is hard to tell if the plating of the hilt was made when the hilt was made or later, but both are possibilities. We see the pictures but you have the tulwar, how is the balance of the blade?

Jens

kronckew · 18th November 2007, 03:19 PM

tulwars, like kris, were often re-hilted. there was even a thread here discussing that the indian armouries would keep the blades and hilts dismounted until just before a war in order that they were not available to mutineers, casual rioters and revolutionaries.

thus the hilt may not be the one the blade started it's life with.

17th November 2007, 10:17 PM	#1
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,649	Another tulwar I am not sure on the seriousness of this one, on what touches the hilt, which is nickel plated (chromed ?) brass. The seller says it's 18th century, but that could be his story. The blade looks fine, with its three fullers, the top one ending where the false edge starts. Some "intentional" dots at the forte, mostly under the langet, look like some kind of mark. I think i see some activity on the steel ... could it be wootz? The scabbard is recent. Seller says 19th century, but i wonder. I will be glad to receive some coments. Thanks Fernando Attached Images Last edited by fernando; 17th November 2007 at 11:11 PM.

17th November 2007, 10:29 PM	#2
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Hi Fernando , Sorry to say ...but I am certain it is not wootz A lot of Tulwars have similar forge patterning but the majority are not 'pleasing to the eye' when etched. How thick is the spine? Regards David

17th November 2007, 10:42 PM	#3
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,649	Hi David Thanks for reacting . The spine is hardly 5 m/m. I know nothing about wootz. I have made such question because i distinctly see the reflexes of a low intensity "waving" on the blade edges, as if it were a Japanese blade (hamon?) ... or some sort of that. Whatever it is, it sure is not plain . Fernando

17th November 2007, 11:43 PM	#5
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,649	Thank you for your knowledgeable coments, Rick. I am glad you got my meaning. It is indeed a sharp edged blade. No wonder the seller kept emphasizing its quality, as he knew what he was offering. Probably if i was at home, with more conditions and a camera tripod, these efects would be more noticeable. But i trust that you saw them in the present pictures. Thanks again Fernando

18th November 2007, 03:06 PM	#9
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,713	Fernando, What should be said about the tulwar has been said already. The square on top of the hilt is however strange. I don’t remember having seen such a square before. The tulwar may not be very old, but I don’t think it is as bad as many other we see, and it does have a nice looking blade with nice fullers like Rick says. It is hard to tell if the plating of the hilt was made when the hilt was made or later, but both are possibilities. We see the pictures but you have the tulwar, how is the balance of the blade? Jens

18th November 2007, 03:19 PM	#10
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,152	tulwars, like kris, were often re-hilted. there was even a thread here discussing that the indian armouries would keep the blades and hilts dismounted until just before a war in order that they were not available to mutineers, casual rioters and revolutionaries. thus the hilt may not be the one the blade started it's life with.