Khanda Sword

BANDOOK · 16th June 2015, 04:49 AM

A RAJASTHANI KHANDA SWORD FROM AROUND 1680 A.D WITHA HINDU BASKET HILT SURROUNDED BY A SPIKE.FROM THE TOP OF THE POMMEL PROTRUDED A SPIKE WHICH NOT ONLY ACTED AS A GUARD FOR THE ARM BUT COULD ALSO BE GRIPPED BY THE LEFT HAND WHILE MAKING A TWO HANDED STROKE,THIS INCREASED THE IMPACT OF THE BLOWAND IN MANY ASPECTS TEH KHANDA WAS THE MOST EFFECTIVE,VERSATILE LONG-BLADD WEAPON EVER DEVELOPED.
THE KHANDA WAS A CUTTING AND SLASHING WEAPON.
THE KHANDA WITH THE BASKET HILT AND THE TALWAR WITH THE HINDU HILT MAY BE CONSIDERED THE NATIONAL SWORDS OF INDIA.

Roland_M · 16th June 2015, 02:29 PM

A good sword and your example has proven its effectivity.

And here is the most ineffective sword in the world, the indian "sword-whip" (Urumi). Looks a little like your Khanda.

Regards, Roland

kronckew · 16th June 2015, 09:27 PM

roland, in the hands of a trained movie actor that urumi is the best sword in the world.

here's a 2.5 hr. movie about it - if y'all can bear to watch it all...
hindi with english subtitles ( it is, i think, the movie that your photo is from)

URUMI the Movie

...and if you don't have an opponent, you can mow the lawn with it!

see THIS LINKY

Jim McDougall · 17th June 2015, 02:46 AM

Fascinating look into the intrigue of Indian arms!

Bandook, this is a very nice example of the so called 'Hindu basket hilt', and I am interested in knowing how the 1680 AD date was determined. Are there markings with this date somewhere on the sword?

I have also always been curious about the 'stem' protruding from the pommel on these, and their use as a secondary grip for a two hand blow. I have often considered a more decorative or symbolic reason for this feature as they do occasionally occur on other versions in shorter (thus not functional in this purpose) length, and it seems on some tulwars.

Regarding symbolic motif, the piercings on the langet, in fours, seems to occur on many northern tulwars from Rajasthan further in the northwest, possibly even into Afghan regions. These also are found on langets of the type of tulwar known popularly as the Afghan 'paluoar'.

Most noteworthy on this khanda is the blade, which is contrary to the blades commonly found on these, usually single edged 'firangi' (imported foreign blades) or native versions of single edged backsword blades.
This blade would be regarded as the 'pattisa', a spatulate tip blade derived from ancient classical forms, and more associated with Marathas in Deccani regions to the south.

The hilt on this with diamond shape grip is not typical of khanda, especially pattisa forms as far as I have known, so I would be grateful to know more on this particular example. Here I would note that this style of grip is known to Rajput use and from Rajasthani regions, but I am unaccustomed to seeing it on a khanda hilt.

This, along with the 'pattisa' type blade, suggests this sword to be anomalous and most interesting.....for the hybridized features as well as the remarkably early date stated.

ariel · 17th June 2015, 04:17 AM

According to Pant, one of the features distinguishing khanda fom patissa is the cylindrical unpadded grip on the latter ( the other being the small pommel bud, the presence of very long steel seatings, the uniform absence of reinforcing border plates [ unlike khanda, where most, but not all, had them] and of D-guard as well as drooping wing-shaped quillons).

Thus, this is a Khanda.

However, I wouldn't call it the " most effective, versatile sword ever developed", nor would I propose an altenative: saber-like blades might have differed in their effriciency because of different engineering approaches ( shamshir vs. shashka vs. kilij etc), but a straight-bladed weapons were reasonably uniform in their usage and efficiency. It was just a matter of weight, length, rigidity and quality of materials. Straightness did not allow for a lot of variability.
The spike, also per Pant, might have served also as a hand-rest, in addition to the two-handed grip.

Also, I am not exactly sure what is meant by " Hindu hilt" of the Tulwar? Tulwar was a Moghul-inspired weapon, very Muslim in origin ( if we ascribe religious meaning to the handles).
Ironically, the Khanda shown here has very tulwar-like pseudo-quillons under its hand guard. Obviously, a mix of both Hindu and Muslim traditions.

Jim McDougall · 17th June 2015, 04:49 AM

I am also unclear on what would be meant by 'Hindu hilt of the tulwar' though these distinctive hilt forms may certainly be regarded as in use by ethnic groups of that Faith, such as Rajputs. The term 'Hindu basket hilt' was originally applied with regard to the more developed khanda hilts of the Marathas, presumably owing to European influences. It has also been my understanding that 'khanda' is yet another dialectic term for sword, not otherwise specified. The term 'firangi' is commonly held to refer to these type hilts mounted with 'foreign' blades.

Regarding the 'pattisa' term, it is again my understanding that it is keyed toward the distinctive spatulate blade form.
My observations on the pattisa form blade on this example recognized that the sword itself remained technically 'khanda'.

As I noted, this example is 'anomalous' in that it is hybridized, referring to the features of tulwar hilts (diamond grip, the langet, and the vestigial quillons under the guard)......and the unusual 'pattisa' type blade.

I think the origins of the 'Indo-Persian' hilt of the tulwar would prove a great topic for discussion under another heading outside this thread. As far as I have known, the exact origins of this hilt form remain unclear, though obviously the Mughal examples definitely account for preponderance of examples.

BANDOOK · 18th June 2015, 12:17 PM

HI JIM
HERE IS MY MARATHA KHANDA AS YOU HAVE MENTIONED
MARATHA KANDA SORD-18 TH CENTURY
the cross-piece set with silver rosette,found in a battleground,overall length-1010
REGARDS RAJESH

Jim McDougall · 18th June 2015, 08:37 PM

Most attractive example Rajesh!
Actually while indeed a 'khanda' and the hilt of the 'form' of course used by the Marathas, I would consider this example again, far into Northwest Frontier regions, and most plausibly Rajput. The rosette seems an affectation favored in these regions. What is significant here is that the sabre blade appears to be a British M1788 light cavalry sabre blade in the cross section (typically regarded as 'Montmorency') used by James Wooley in Birmingham in his examples of the form. I have seen examples of shamshir hilt tulwars with these same blades and considered them to be from Sind regions, however Deccani examples are also known.

It is well known that British light cavalry blades were often mounted in Indian hilts as these M1788's are....however the most common instances were the M1796 light cavalry blades quite commonly used in tulwars.
In many accounts of cavalry actions in India by British officers note the astounding effectiveness of Indian horsemen with their sabres, and were horrified to discover they were using their own British blades!! honed to razor sharpness.

16th June 2015, 04:49 AM	#1
BANDOOK Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: AUCKLAND,NEW ZEALAND Posts: 624	Khanda Sword A RAJASTHANI KHANDA SWORD FROM AROUND 1680 A.D WITHA HINDU BASKET HILT SURROUNDED BY A SPIKE.FROM THE TOP OF THE POMMEL PROTRUDED A SPIKE WHICH NOT ONLY ACTED AS A GUARD FOR THE ARM BUT COULD ALSO BE GRIPPED BY THE LEFT HAND WHILE MAKING A TWO HANDED STROKE,THIS INCREASED THE IMPACT OF THE BLOWAND IN MANY ASPECTS TEH KHANDA WAS THE MOST EFFECTIVE,VERSATILE LONG-BLADD WEAPON EVER DEVELOPED. THE KHANDA WAS A CUTTING AND SLASHING WEAPON. THE KHANDA WITH THE BASKET HILT AND THE TALWAR WITH THE HINDU HILT MAY BE CONSIDERED THE NATIONAL SWORDS OF INDIA. Attached Images

16th June 2015, 02:29 PM	#2
Roland_M Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Germany Posts: 523	A good sword and your example has proven its effectivity. And here is the most ineffective sword in the world, the indian "sword-whip" (Urumi). Looks a little like your Khanda. Regards, Roland Attached Images

16th June 2015, 09:27 PM	#3
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,150	roland, in the hands of a trained movie actor that urumi is the best sword in the world. here's a 2.5 hr. movie about it - if y'all can bear to watch it all... hindi with english subtitles ( it is, i think, the movie that your photo is from) URUMI the Movie ...and if you don't have an opponent, you can mow the lawn with it! see THIS LINKY Last edited by kronckew; 16th June 2015 at 09:49 PM.

18th June 2015, 12:17 PM	#7
BANDOOK Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: AUCKLAND,NEW ZEALAND Posts: 624	MARATHA KHANDA HI JIM HERE IS MY MARATHA KHANDA AS YOU HAVE MENTIONED MARATHA KANDA SORD-18 TH CENTURY the cross-piece set with silver rosette,found in a battleground,overall length-1010 REGARDS RAJESH Attached Images

18th June 2015, 08:37 PM	#8
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,738	Most attractive example Rajesh! Actually while indeed a 'khanda' and the hilt of the 'form' of course used by the Marathas, I would consider this example again, far into Northwest Frontier regions, and most plausibly Rajput. The rosette seems an affectation favored in these regions. What is significant here is that the sabre blade appears to be a British M1788 light cavalry sabre blade in the cross section (typically regarded as 'Montmorency') used by James Wooley in Birmingham in his examples of the form. I have seen examples of shamshir hilt tulwars with these same blades and considered them to be from Sind regions, however Deccani examples are also known. It is well known that British light cavalry blades were often mounted in Indian hilts as these M1788's are....however the most common instances were the M1796 light cavalry blades quite commonly used in tulwars. In many accounts of cavalry actions in India by British officers note the astounding effectiveness of Indian horsemen with their sabres, and were horrified to discover they were using their own British blades!! honed to razor sharpness. Last edited by Jim McDougall; 19th June 2015 at 06:25 AM.

17th June 2015, 02:46 AM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,738	Fascinating look into the intrigue of Indian arms! Bandook, this is a very nice example of the so called 'Hindu basket hilt', and I am interested in knowing how the 1680 AD date was determined. Are there markings with this date somewhere on the sword? I have also always been curious about the 'stem' protruding from the pommel on these, and their use as a secondary grip for a two hand blow. I have often considered a more decorative or symbolic reason for this feature as they do occasionally occur on other versions in shorter (thus not functional in this purpose) length, and it seems on some tulwars. Regarding symbolic motif, the piercings on the langet, in fours, seems to occur on many northern tulwars from Rajasthan further in the northwest, possibly even into Afghan regions. These also are found on langets of the type of tulwar known popularly as the Afghan 'paluoar'. Most noteworthy on this khanda is the blade, which is contrary to the blades commonly found on these, usually single edged 'firangi' (imported foreign blades) or native versions of single edged backsword blades. This blade would be regarded as the 'pattisa', a spatulate tip blade derived from ancient classical forms, and more associated with Marathas in Deccani regions to the south. The hilt on this with diamond shape grip is not typical of khanda, especially pattisa forms as far as I have known, so I would be grateful to know more on this particular example. Here I would note that this style of grip is known to Rajput use and from Rajasthani regions, but I am unaccustomed to seeing it on a khanda hilt. This, along with the 'pattisa' type blade, suggests this sword to be anomalous and most interesting.....for the hybridized features as well as the remarkably early date stated.

17th June 2015, 04:17 AM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	According to Pant, one of the features distinguishing khanda fom patissa is the cylindrical unpadded grip on the latter ( the other being the small pommel bud, the presence of very long steel seatings, the uniform absence of reinforcing border plates [ unlike khanda, where most, but not all, had them] and of D-guard as well as drooping wing-shaped quillons). Thus, this is a Khanda. However, I wouldn't call it the " most effective, versatile sword ever developed", nor would I propose an altenative: saber-like blades might have differed in their effriciency because of different engineering approaches ( shamshir vs. shashka vs. kilij etc), but a straight-bladed weapons were reasonably uniform in their usage and efficiency. It was just a matter of weight, length, rigidity and quality of materials. Straightness did not allow for a lot of variability. The spike, also per Pant, might have served also as a hand-rest, in addition to the two-handed grip. Also, I am not exactly sure what is meant by " Hindu hilt" of the Tulwar? Tulwar was a Moghul-inspired weapon, very Muslim in origin ( if we ascribe religious meaning to the handles). Ironically, the Khanda shown here has very tulwar-like pseudo-quillons under its hand guard. Obviously, a mix of both Hindu and Muslim traditions.

17th June 2015, 04:49 AM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,738	I am also unclear on what would be meant by 'Hindu hilt of the tulwar' though these distinctive hilt forms may certainly be regarded as in use by ethnic groups of that Faith, such as Rajputs. The term 'Hindu basket hilt' was originally applied with regard to the more developed khanda hilts of the Marathas, presumably owing to European influences. It has also been my understanding that 'khanda' is yet another dialectic term for sword, not otherwise specified. The term 'firangi' is commonly held to refer to these type hilts mounted with 'foreign' blades. Regarding the 'pattisa' term, it is again my understanding that it is keyed toward the distinctive spatulate blade form. My observations on the pattisa form blade on this example recognized that the sword itself remained technically 'khanda'. As I noted, this example is 'anomalous' in that it is hybridized, referring to the features of tulwar hilts (diamond grip, the langet, and the vestigial quillons under the guard)......and the unusual 'pattisa' type blade. I think the origins of the 'Indo-Persian' hilt of the tulwar would prove a great topic for discussion under another heading outside this thread. As far as I have known, the exact origins of this hilt form remain unclear, though obviously the Mughal examples definitely account for preponderance of examples.