Ethics and Policies

A. G. Maisey · 29th November 2009, 07:47 PM

This thread has drawn a lot of interest, and a number of people have come forward and stated an opinion.

It is my firm conviction that the management of this site will act to improve this facility and will put in place some revised policies in order to keep the character of the site as it was originally intended:- a place for collectors to exchange information and to learn.

Once those new policies are in place I am certain that management will not enter into any discussion on either the new policies or upon their application.

Once any new policies are in place there will be no further opportunity for comment.

At the present time we have a unique opportunity:-

we, the membership of this Forum, have been permitted to state our views in this matter, and to assist management in the formulation of policy.

I most sincerely advise that we do not let this opportunity pass.

The time has come for us to let management know what we want any changes in policy to do, in other words to state what we believe the objectives of change in policy should seek to achieve.

I have stated what I think these objectives should be.

Are my objectives adequate?

Or are they inadequate?

Do they need to be changed?

Do they need to be added to?

We cannot get to a new place unless we identify our destination.

The way to do that is to formulate a clear and achieveable objective.

Now is the time to do that.

Once management has taken its decision and acted it will be too late to change anything.

Jeff D · 29th November 2009, 08:43 PM

Apparently I was too cryptic before. Let me explain what I would like to see as this affects the entire board. I am not too familiar with the Keris forum, but have noticed the same behavior on the other forums with the same detrimental effect. It is clear some forumites don't mind being pumped for information, some do. A sub-forum where all the contributors know that the object is, or will be for sale would avoid any confusion and subsequent hard feelings. All who would like to contribute can, those who don't can avoid the threads. It should lessen the work load for the moderators as they will not have to be constantly policing the threads to warn, ban, lock, or delete the offending threads and members.

Anyone using the other forums for commercial purposes could simply be banned and their entire thread deleted. We can all help police the site, bring the offenders to the attention of a moderator, then ZAP, they and their thread are gone. I personally would like to see a one year statute of limitations on the object. It won't have to happen too often for the message to get through. We can then get back to the sharing of information as a group of like minded enthusiasts.

Thanks
Jeff

A. G. Maisey · 30th November 2009, 09:54 AM

Thanks for your further input, Jeff.

I'm trying to encourage our members to move on from proposing remedies and identifying problems to the identification of what we wish to achieve, ie, objectives.

You have proposed something that could well be a useful and valid solution, but it is not an objective.

If we look at your proposals, perhaps these could be framed as objectives :-

1)--- that any items posted for comment and that the owner intends to offer for sale in the near future be clearly identified as such

2)--- that the use of the Forum for commercial purposes be banned.

Here we are discussing only those things that affect the keris forum:- Keris Warung Kopi; we cannot presume to attempt to enforce our views on the other Forums.

Once we establish what we wish to achieve we can then hope that the management of this Forum will put in place a mechanism that will will assist in the achievement of our identified objectives.

This mechanism could well incorporate your suggestions.

BluErf · 30th November 2009, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

...

Once those new policies are in place I am certain that management will not enter into any discussion on either the new policies or upon their application.

Once any new policies are in place there will be no further opportunity for comment.

...

Once management has taken its decision and acted it will be too late to change anything.

In my humble opinion, if some policies don't work as well as expected after implementation, or is even detrimental to the forum due to some unforeseen reasons, they should be subject to review. The only question is how they can be put up for review. I don't think any policy can be perfect from the start and stay relevant/unchanged over long periods.

Rick · 30th November 2009, 07:11 PM

I understand your concerns Kai Wee; the last thing we want to do is kill this place .

Input please guys.

There are changes coming to Swap as well .

After the changes are in place if you have a problem you'll have to talk to a Moderator .

This thread is it for input .

Rick

A. G. Maisey · 30th November 2009, 09:42 PM

I agree completely Kai Wee, however, after the present upcoming changes have been made, we're back to where we were before this discussion was opened up:- Forum policies are a matter for management, and no discussion will be entered into in public.

This discussion is unique, in that we have the opportunity to give our views to management and those views will be taken into consideration in the formulation of any new policies.

As is the case in any type of organisation, policy must be under continual review, and must be reframed as the environment changes, and again, as in any organisation, this is one of the duties of management.

Failure to maintain adequate policy can result in an orgainsation losing its viability. That is what our current discussion is about:- the maintenance of the relevance and viability of our facility for open discussion of the keris --- and management is listening to us.

Lets grab the opportunity with both hands and make the most of it.

Rick · 3rd December 2009, 01:19 AM

What ?
No more input, suggestions ???
If you haven't already spoken please do .

CourseEight · 3rd December 2009, 01:37 AM

Well, for my part, I use the swap section only occassionally and I sell some things on ebay, but I never ever post items I have any thought that I would sell at a later date. So I'm okay with the 150-posts-to-use-swap idea, the 3-month-hold on pieces idea, and the appropriate punishments for (non-innocent) abuses.

There seems to be some issue involving some people wanting the ability to ID things for resale, which I can understand. However, I think a public seperate forum might be overkill. Why not just have a Sticky with a list of members who are willing to receive inquires of this kind via PM? Moderators can add or remove members from the list at their request, and members can simply include their user names and area of specality. I know that, personally, as a relatively less experienced collector, I am aware of those members who know a great deal more than I do, but I am tentative to "bother" them with banal questions. Such a sticky might serve as an "open invitation" to younger members, and the members receiving these questions might even encourage them to post interesting pieces to the public forum. Of course, if it is an ID for resale, then that wouldn't be alllowed.

My $0.02

--Radleigh

Andrew · 3rd December 2009, 05:00 AM

Interesting thread, gentlemen. It's caused me to actually stop contemplating my navel and think about something other than my day job for the first time in many moons.

30th November 2009, 07:11 PM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,268	I understand your concerns Kai Wee; the last thing we want to do is kill this place . Input please guys. There are changes coming to Swap as well . After the changes are in place if you have a problem you'll have to talk to a Moderator . This thread is it for input . Rick Last edited by Rick; 30th November 2009 at 07:22 PM.

29th November 2009, 07:47 PM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,736	This thread has drawn a lot of interest, and a number of people have come forward and stated an opinion. It is my firm conviction that the management of this site will act to improve this facility and will put in place some revised policies in order to keep the character of the site as it was originally intended:- a place for collectors to exchange information and to learn. Once those new policies are in place I am certain that management will not enter into any discussion on either the new policies or upon their application. Once any new policies are in place there will be no further opportunity for comment. At the present time we have a unique opportunity:- we, the membership of this Forum, have been permitted to state our views in this matter, and to assist management in the formulation of policy. I most sincerely advise that we do not let this opportunity pass. The time has come for us to let management know what we want any changes in policy to do, in other words to state what we believe the objectives of change in policy should seek to achieve. I have stated what I think these objectives should be. Are my objectives adequate? Or are they inadequate? Do they need to be changed? Do they need to be added to? We cannot get to a new place unless we identify our destination. The way to do that is to formulate a clear and achieveable objective. Now is the time to do that. Once management has taken its decision and acted it will be too late to change anything.

29th November 2009, 08:43 PM	#2
Jeff D Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: B.C. Canada Posts: 473	Apparently I was too cryptic before. Let me explain what I would like to see as this affects the entire board. I am not too familiar with the Keris forum, but have noticed the same behavior on the other forums with the same detrimental effect. It is clear some forumites don't mind being pumped for information, some do. A sub-forum where all the contributors know that the object is, or will be for sale would avoid any confusion and subsequent hard feelings. All who would like to contribute can, those who don't can avoid the threads. It should lessen the work load for the moderators as they will not have to be constantly policing the threads to warn, ban, lock, or delete the offending threads and members. Anyone using the other forums for commercial purposes could simply be banned and their entire thread deleted. We can all help police the site, bring the offenders to the attention of a moderator, then ZAP, they and their thread are gone. I personally would like to see a one year statute of limitations on the object. It won't have to happen too often for the message to get through. We can then get back to the sharing of information as a group of like minded enthusiasts. Thanks Jeff

30th November 2009, 09:54 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,736	Thanks for your further input, Jeff. I'm trying to encourage our members to move on from proposing remedies and identifying problems to the identification of what we wish to achieve, ie, objectives. You have proposed something that could well be a useful and valid solution, but it is not an objective. If we look at your proposals, perhaps these could be framed as objectives :- 1)--- that any items posted for comment and that the owner intends to offer for sale in the near future be clearly identified as such 2)--- that the use of the Forum for commercial purposes be banned. Here we are discussing only those things that affect the keris forum:- Keris Warung Kopi; we cannot presume to attempt to enforce our views on the other Forums. Once we establish what we wish to achieve we can then hope that the management of this Forum will put in place a mechanism that will will assist in the achievement of our identified objectives. This mechanism could well incorporate your suggestions.

30th November 2009, 09:42 PM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,736	I agree completely Kai Wee, however, after the present upcoming changes have been made, we're back to where we were before this discussion was opened up:- Forum policies are a matter for management, and no discussion will be entered into in public. This discussion is unique, in that we have the opportunity to give our views to management and those views will be taken into consideration in the formulation of any new policies. As is the case in any type of organisation, policy must be under continual review, and must be reframed as the environment changes, and again, as in any organisation, this is one of the duties of management. Failure to maintain adequate policy can result in an orgainsation losing its viability. That is what our current discussion is about:- the maintenance of the relevance and viability of our facility for open discussion of the keris --- and management is listening to us. Lets grab the opportunity with both hands and make the most of it.

3rd December 2009, 01:19 AM	#7
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,268	What ? No more input, suggestions ??? If you haven't already spoken please do .

3rd December 2009, 01:37 AM	#8
CourseEight Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Coral Springs, FL Posts: 222	Well, for my part, I use the swap section only occassionally and I sell some things on ebay, but I never ever post items I have any thought that I would sell at a later date. So I'm okay with the 150-posts-to-use-swap idea, the 3-month-hold on pieces idea, and the appropriate punishments for (non-innocent) abuses. There seems to be some issue involving some people wanting the ability to ID things for resale, which I can understand. However, I think a public seperate forum might be overkill. Why not just have a Sticky with a list of members who are willing to receive inquires of this kind via PM? Moderators can add or remove members from the list at their request, and members can simply include their user names and area of specality. I know that, personally, as a relatively less experienced collector, I am aware of those members who know a great deal more than I do, but I am tentative to "bother" them with banal questions. Such a sticky might serve as an "open invitation" to younger members, and the members receiving these questions might even encourage them to post interesting pieces to the public forum. Of course, if it is an ID for resale, then that wouldn't be alllowed. My $0.02 --Radleigh

3rd December 2009, 05:00 AM	#9
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	Interesting thread, gentlemen. It's caused me to actually stop contemplating my navel and think about something other than my day job for the first time in many moons.