Interesting "wallhanger"

Treeslicer · 16th February 2018, 08:00 AM

This is about a Keris Naga Sasra which I recently acquired, because I was attracted to the detailed and lively nature of how the motifs were chiseled. The closest parallel to it stylistically I've yet found (for the naga head and scales) is KBA 12 (the last keris in the Bali section) at the Malay World Edged Weapons site. I'm especially intrigued by things like the care taken in lining up the chisel marks between the top and sides of the ganja and how the cutting/chasing of the simulated layering was carefully done while the final filing before it was pickled and gilded shows no care taken whatsoever.

The warangka, which I have not bothered to waste server space on illustrating, is an unremarkable Surakarta example matching the hilt.

One particularly odd feature is the obvious wear where one would place one's thumb if using the keris, which suggests to me that someone used it for something, such as silat keris practice, or public performance.

I'm interested in whether anyone is aware of an industry (as anthropologists would put it) producing kerises with this pattern of chiselled embellishments, and using the peculiar hammered pattern along the edges to simulate layering and pamor. I've included one photo comparing it with a more typical tourist-quality Naga Sasra to underline the differences. I'm already well aware that it has the collectibility of a run-over cane toad, but I'm still curious in where it might have been made, anyway. Thanks in advance for any comments.

kai · 16th February 2018, 06:01 PM

G'day Treeslicer,

Welcome to the forum!

Quote:

This is about a Keris Naga Sasra which I recently acquired, because I was attracted to the detailed and lively nature of how the motifs were chiseled. The closest parallel to it stylistically I've yet found (for the naga head and scales) is KBA 12 (the last keris in the Bali section) at the Malay World Edged Weapons site. I'm especially intrigued by things like the care taken in lining up the chisel marks between the top and sides of the ganja and how the cutting/chasing of the simulated layering was carefully done while the final filing before it was pickled and gilded shows no care taken whatsoever.

I have to admit that I have a bit of a hard time to compare it to KBA 12 (or any other keris Bali

) even if restricting comparison to details of the naga...

Quote:

One particularly odd feature is the obvious wear where one would place one's thumb if using the keris, which suggests to me that someone used it for something, such as silat keris practice, or public performance.

I'd guess this is a pretty unlikely scenario. It doesn't strike me as necessarily legitimate wear, too.

A dukun may be among the few to dare touching such a piece in an Indo social setting - however, probably a bit flashy for that kind of purpose.

Quote:

I'm interested in whether anyone is aware of an industry (as anthropologists would put it) producing kerises with this pattern of chiselled embellishments, and using the peculiar hammered pattern along the edges to simulate layering and pamor.

From what I know this is most likely Madurese work. Maybe Alan can provide details on this folk "art" production?

Quote:

I've included one photo comparing it with a more typical tourist-quality Naga Sasra to underline the differences.

This seems to still reside in the moderators' queue. A pic of the whole blade(s) would be good.

There is a huge variance of styles and qualities in current production though.

Quote:

I'm already well aware that it has the collectibility of a run-over cane toad

You made my day!

Regards,
Kai

David · 16th February 2018, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Treeslicer

I'm already well aware that it has the collectibility of a run-over cane toad, but I'm still curious in where it might have been made, anyway.

Welcome to the forum Treeslicer. I don't want to discourage you, but in all honesty i would find far more interest in the run-over cane toad.

These poorly chiseled motifs are not uncommon and frankly i don't know where any useful discussion might go on this. Many real naga blades will have chiseling along the naga body to simulate snake scales. The differences between the carvings of the Bali keris you linked to and yours are pretty far apart for comparison though.

A. G. Maisey · 16th February 2018, 07:27 PM

This keris might be Madura (Sumenep), but I doubt it. It is more likely that it is Jogja, pre-1980, post-1950.

In fact, I probably knew the man who made it.

Treeslicer · 16th February 2018, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

This keris might be Madura (Sumenep), but I doubt it. It is more likely that it is Jogja, pre-1980, post-1950.

In fact, I probably knew the man who made it.

Thank you very, very much. Pre-1980 would explain a bit. I was also wondering if someone who ordinarily decorated something other than kerises might have been tapped to decorate one. I've seen a number of vile attempts at kerises come home in sea-bags, but not one quite like this. The naga head is closer to an outraged lizard, as I feel it should be, than to a grumpy bear or a dog, and the artisan sharpened his chisel occasionally.

Battara · 16th February 2018, 08:44 PM

I was going to say that this is a much later creation - I have seen a number of these in chiseled brass with this level of craftsmanship.

Treeslicer · 16th February 2018, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

I was going to say that this is a much later creation - I have seen a number of these in chiseled brass with this level of craftsmanship.

I'd wondered about that, and looked at some brass examples posted online (all recent), but haven't found a match, or anything close enough to suggest an inspirational kinship. If you could post some examples or direct me to them, I'd be grateful. The closest thing that I've seen so far were some examples of motifs on pre-WW II Balinese sandstone carvings in old National Geographics.

There just doesn't seem to be a readily accessible historical reference on Indonesian kitsch. Given their long history of foreign trade and colonial rule, however, they didn't start making souvenirs just yesterday.

Treeslicer · 16th February 2018, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Welcome to the forum Treeslicer. I don't want to discourage you, but in all honesty i would find far more interest in the run-over cane toad.

These poorly chiseled motifs are not uncommon and frankly i don't know where any useful discussion might go on this. Many real naga blades will have chiseling along the naga body to simulate snake scales. The differences between the carvings of the Bali keris you linked to and yours are pretty far apart for comparison though.

Thanks. It actually differs quite a bit from the usual line of "X" lackadaisically up the naga body as scales, the minimal leaf motifs added for a third of the way up the blade (as well as on the ganja), a few holes drilled here-and-there for "filligree", "surface pamor" added by rubbing stainless tableware over the blade, climaxed with a head that more resembles a mastiff than a naga, that one more usually sees. As I've previously noted, this example is no masterpiece, but, IMHO, it's not any closer to the common "souvenir" tradition than it is to KBA 12.

I've further reduced the comparison photo, so it would upload. The head on the comparison Naga Sasra is better than most, more like a Doberman than a mastiff, but the quality of the rendition of Semar on the handle suggests that the carver was not a superstitious person.

kai · 18th February 2018, 01:24 AM

Quote:

As I've previously noted, this example is no masterpiece, but, IMHO, it's not any closer to the common "souvenir" tradition than it is to KBA 12.

I've further reduced the comparison photo, so it would upload. The head on the comparison Naga Sasra is better than most, more like a Doberman than a mastiff, but the quality of the rendition of Semar on the handle suggests that the carver was not a superstitious person.

Well, hilts (and mendak) of less than stellar quality can be found all over the place.

If we concentrate on the blade, I'm afraid I don't see that much of a difference between those 2 kamardikan pieces - maybe a close-up is needed, too.

If anything, the proportions and placement of the figural carving seem to suggest somewhat better craftsmanship in the other piece...

Regards,
Kai

Treeslicer · 18th February 2018, 06:26 AM

Kai, here's a close up. I got this from processing the original comparison shot, but can take more photos if necessary.

Note the basic differences in style from the closeups above. What's here is what I would consider a "usual" or "canonical" Naga Sasra, and any number of similar blades can be found on eBay (some of which make either of mine look like Benvenuto Cellini carved them, by comparison), as well as on Indonesian keris websites. I find the styles differ sufficiently to expect a different origin. Something that you can't see in these views is that the keris in the latest detail has a high angle edge along most of its length, like a cold chisel edge, while the peculiar one is actually quite sharp.

I wish to underline again that my curiosity has nothing to do with value here, but with why this one keris looks nothing like any number of items of the same dapur taken randomly from the Internet. It's almost like whoever carved it had a description, but had never seen one before.

BTW, the steel on the OP keris, while not apparently folded, isn't bad, and has a good, stiff temper to it

David · 18th February 2018, 04:49 PM

Forgive me, but i really don't know what we are discussing here. The only thing that i find extraordinary about the originally posted keris is that when i search the internet i am hard pressed to find a worse example of a reproduction of naga sosro keris.

Treeslicer · 16th February 2018, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

I don't want to discourage you, but in all honesty i would find far more interest in the run-over cane toad.

One humbly defers to the wishes of the Moderator.

David · 16th February 2018, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Treeslicer

One humbly defers to the wishes of the Moderator.

Thank you Treeslicer. I should explain that i am a professional photographer by trade and one of my side art projects involves dead animals. I would have been extremely pleased to have come across that little fellow, especially with the added whimsy of having been caught under the line painter. LOL!

kronckew · 17th February 2018, 09:35 AM

Line painters just don't care. That was better than these:

The last one would be cool if they added a painted on tunnel entrance for Wiley Coyote... (feel free to remove as 'off topic'

16th February 2018, 08:00 AM	#1
Treeslicer Member Join Date: Feb 2018 Posts: 65	Interesting "wallhanger" This is about a Keris Naga Sasra which I recently acquired, because I was attracted to the detailed and lively nature of how the motifs were chiseled. The closest parallel to it stylistically I've yet found (for the naga head and scales) is KBA 12 (the last keris in the Bali section) at the Malay World Edged Weapons site. I'm especially intrigued by things like the care taken in lining up the chisel marks between the top and sides of the ganja and how the cutting/chasing of the simulated layering was carefully done while the final filing before it was pickled and gilded shows no care taken whatsoever. The warangka, which I have not bothered to waste server space on illustrating, is an unremarkable Surakarta example matching the hilt. One particularly odd feature is the obvious wear where one would place one's thumb if using the keris, which suggests to me that someone used it for something, such as silat keris practice, or public performance. I'm interested in whether anyone is aware of an industry (as anthropologists would put it) producing kerises with this pattern of chiselled embellishments, and using the peculiar hammered pattern along the edges to simulate layering and pamor. I've included one photo comparing it with a more typical tourist-quality Naga Sasra to underline the differences. I'm already well aware that it has the collectibility of a run-over cane toad, but I'm still curious in where it might have been made, anyway. Thanks in advance for any comments. Attached Images Last edited by Treeslicer; 16th February 2018 at 05:10 PM.

18th February 2018, 06:26 AM	#10
Treeslicer Member Join Date: Feb 2018 Posts: 65	Kai, here's a close up. I got this from processing the original comparison shot, but can take more photos if necessary. Note the basic differences in style from the closeups above. What's here is what I would consider a "usual" or "canonical" Naga Sasra, and any number of similar blades can be found on eBay (some of which make either of mine look like Benvenuto Cellini carved them, by comparison), as well as on Indonesian keris websites. I find the styles differ sufficiently to expect a different origin. Something that you can't see in these views is that the keris in the latest detail has a high angle edge along most of its length, like a cold chisel edge, while the peculiar one is actually quite sharp. I wish to underline again that my curiosity has nothing to do with value here, but with why this one keris looks nothing like any number of items of the same dapur taken randomly from the Internet. It's almost like whoever carved it had a description, but had never seen one before. BTW, the steel on the OP keris, while not apparently folded, isn't bad, and has a good, stiff temper to it Attached Images

17th February 2018, 09:35 AM	#14
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,150	Line painters just don't care. That was better than these: The last one would be cool if they added a painted on tunnel entrance for Wiley Coyote... (feel free to remove as 'off topic' Attached Images Last edited by kronckew; 17th February 2018 at 09:45 AM.

16th February 2018, 07:27 PM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,698	This keris might be Madura (Sumenep), but I doubt it. It is more likely that it is Jogja, pre-1980, post-1950. In fact, I probably knew the man who made it.

16th February 2018, 08:44 PM	#6
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	I was going to say that this is a much later creation - I have seen a number of these in chiseled brass with this level of craftsmanship.

18th February 2018, 04:49 PM	#11
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,025	Forgive me, but i really don't know what we are discussing here. The only thing that i find extraordinary about the originally posted keris is that when i search the internet i am hard pressed to find a worse example of a reproduction of naga sosro keris.