Identification and opinion about 2 Keris

ericlaude · 11th February 2012, 11:36 PM

Hello Everyboby,
I bought those Keris and I'm not an expert, I guess the first Warangka is not the original one, and I know the second is Javanese, can someone tell me the origin of the first and the age of they may have.
Thanks in advance.

ericlaude · 11th February 2012, 11:37 PM

Jean · 12th February 2012, 09:50 AM

Hello,
The first kris has a peculiar blade with an oddly shaped pejetan, deep and full greneng, ada-ada, and ganja iras. The sheath and hilt look to originate from East Java and my personal guess for the blade origin is also East Java but I am not sure, other opinions are welcome.
Regards

Gustav · 12th February 2012, 10:46 AM

Like Jean said, the blade is roughly made, it is difficult to say something about the origin. Actually this is not a matter for a discussion, just a remark from me - the general blade shape is more Sumatran, as is the greneng. Selut looks Sumatran, such planar style hilts imitating Central Javanese hilt form are also to be found in Sumatra. Yet on the whole it could came from everywhere.

Sajen · 12th February 2012, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gustav

Like Jean said, the blade is roughly made, it is difficult to say something about the origin. Actually this is not a matter for a discussion, just a remark from me - the general blade shape is more Sumatran, as is the greneng. Selut looks Sumatran, such planar style hilts imitating Central Javanese hilt form are also to be found in Sumatra. Yet on the whole it could came from everywhere.

This was what I have thought as well when I have seen the blade the first time, the blade, hilt and pendokok have a sumatran touch.

Regards,

Detlef

Jean · 12th February 2012, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gustav

Like Jean said, the blade is roughly made, it is difficult to say something about the origin. Actually this is not a matter for a discussion, just a remark from me - the general blade shape is more Sumatran, as is the greneng. Selut looks Sumatran, such planar style hilts imitating Central Javanese hilt form are also to be found in Sumatra. Yet on the whole it could came from everywhere.

Just for adding to the confusion, the base of the hilt (thick and rounded) and the greneng have some Balinese flavour... I see some similarities between this kris and the one shown on the attached picture, any comment?
Regards

David · 12th February 2012, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jean

Just for adding to the confusion, the base of the hilt (thick and rounded) and the greneng have some Balinese flavour... I see some similarities between this kris and the one shown on the attached picture, any comment?
Regards

Can you clarify Jean...are you saying that this example you are now showing is from Bali, because i don't see that?

Jean · 12th February 2012, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Can you clarify Jean...are you saying that this example you are now showing is from Bali, because i don't see that?

Hello David,
Sorry for the confusion, my 2 comments are separate:
1. I find that the shape of the greneng of Ericlaude's kris is reminiscent of some Balinese krisses (see picture) but of course I do not say that this kris is Balinese. I did not notice the cup of the selut initially so please forget my comment about the base of the hilt.
2. I see some similarity between the kris from Ericlaude and mine shown on the picture (shape of the blade, ada-ada, ganja iras, greneng, and hilt especially).
Regards

A. G. Maisey · 12th February 2012, 08:58 PM

Just looking at the blade, I tend to think South Sumatra, but all the other bits and pieces look like a hodge podge.

The hilt has similarities with hilts from West Bali and East Jawa; the selut looks Peninsula or Sumatra and could even be made in a western culture:- is it turned from a solid block, or has it been constructed? The scabbard looks like rural Jawa or perhaps Madura.

There is absolutely no coherence between the separate parts of this keris that would encourage me to give any opinion at all on where it might have been assembled.

This is not to say it is not an authentic keris. Over the years I've seen some pretty peculiar keris that were 100% indigenous items. Mixtures of bits and pieces from everywhere, put together in some village that had no real major cultural influence from anywhere. Indonesia has somewhere between 17,000 and 19,000 islands, not all inhabited, nor habitable; Maritime SE Asia has thousands more. This keris could be from anywhere.

Not all marriages are evidence of dealers doing the match-making.

11th February 2012, 11:36 PM	#1
ericlaude Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 187	Identification and opinion about 2 Keris Hello Everyboby, I bought those Keris and I'm not an expert, I guess the first Warangka is not the original one, and I know the second is Javanese, can someone tell me the origin of the first and the age of they may have. Thanks in advance. Attached Images

11th February 2012, 11:37 PM	#2
ericlaude Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 187	Next Attached Images

12th February 2012, 09:50 AM	#3
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Hello, The first kris has a peculiar blade with an oddly shaped pejetan, deep and full greneng, ada-ada, and ganja iras. The sheath and hilt look to originate from East Java and my personal guess for the blade origin is also East Java but I am not sure, other opinions are welcome. Regards

12th February 2012, 10:46 AM	#4
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,196	Like Jean said, the blade is roughly made, it is difficult to say something about the origin. Actually this is not a matter for a discussion, just a remark from me - the general blade shape is more Sumatran, as is the greneng. Selut looks Sumatran, such planar style hilts imitating Central Javanese hilt form are also to be found in Sumatra. Yet on the whole it could came from everywhere.

12th February 2012, 08:58 PM	#9
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,698	Just looking at the blade, I tend to think South Sumatra, but all the other bits and pieces look like a hodge podge. The hilt has similarities with hilts from West Bali and East Jawa; the selut looks Peninsula or Sumatra and could even be made in a western culture:- is it turned from a solid block, or has it been constructed? The scabbard looks like rural Jawa or perhaps Madura. There is absolutely no coherence between the separate parts of this keris that would encourage me to give any opinion at all on where it might have been assembled. This is not to say it is not an authentic keris. Over the years I've seen some pretty peculiar keris that were 100% indigenous items. Mixtures of bits and pieces from everywhere, put together in some village that had no real major cultural influence from anywhere. Indonesia has somewhere between 17,000 and 19,000 islands, not all inhabited, nor habitable; Maritime SE Asia has thousands more. This keris could be from anywhere. Not all marriages are evidence of dealers doing the match-making.