Sri-Lankan (Ceylon) Knife

Miguel · 11th May 2016, 07:57 PM

Hello Everyone,

I would be grateful for more information on this knife, I believe it is called a Piha Kaetta, that it is from Sri-Lanka and that is about all except for its dimensions which are overall length 10.375 ins, blade length 6 ins x 1.25 ins wide. The handle is intricately carved and decorated with brass and silver which extends partway down the blade which in marked contrast is rather heavy and plain.
I would be grateful if you could tell me more about it such as use, age etc. Thanking you in anticipation.
Regards
Miguel

BANDOOK · 12th May 2016, 12:32 PM

NICE KNIFE,MOSTLY USED TO CUT BEETLE NUT AND FOR CEREMONIAL PURPOSES,WILL POST MINE SOON
REGARDS RAJESH

corrado26 · 12th May 2016, 01:32 PM

Very nice and decorative piece; would be glad to have it in my collection
corrado26

VANDOO · 12th May 2016, 11:40 PM

IT LOOKS LIKE A NICE ONE IN GOOD SHAPE, ITS DIFFICULT TO TELL THE AGE ON THESE AND I DON'T KNOW IF THEY ARE STILL MAKING THEM. I SUSPECT IF THEY ARE STILL BEING MADE THE QUALITY WILL NOT BE AS GOOD. THERE ARE SEVERAL GOOD POSTS ON THESE IN THE FORUM ARCHIVES A SEARCH SHOULD BRING UP QUITE A BIT OF INFORMATION.

Miguel · 13th May 2016, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BANDOOK

NICE KNIFE,MOSTLY USED TO CUT BEETLE NUT AND FOR CEREMONIAL PURPOSES,WILL POST MINE SOON
REGARDS RAJESH

Hi Rajesh,

Thanks for the info I now know what it was used for and look forward to seeing yours.
Regards
Miguel

Miguel · 13th May 2016, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corrado26

Very nice and decorative piece; would be glad to have it in my collection
corrado26

Hi Corrado26,

Thanks I am glad you like it.
Regards
Miguel

Miguel · 13th May 2016, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VANDOO

IT LOOKS LIKE A NICE ONE IN GOOD SHAPE, ITS DIFFICULT TO TELL THE AGE ON THESE AND I DON'T KNOW IF THEY ARE STILL MAKING THEM. I SUSPECT IF THEY ARE STILL BEING MADE THE QUALITY WILL NOT BE AS GOOD. THERE ARE SEVERAL GOOD POSTS ON THESE IN THE FORUM ARCHIVES A SEARCH SHOULD BRING UP QUITE A BIT OF INFORMATION.

Hi Vandoo,

Thanks for the info, I will do a searh as you suggest and possibly learn a lot more about this decorative weapon.
Regards
Miguel

David · 13th May 2016, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miguel

Hi Vandoo,

Thanks for the info, I will do a searh as you suggest and possibly learn a lot more about this decorative weapon.
Regards
Miguel

AFAIK these are not used as "weapons".

BANDOOK · 14th May 2016, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miguel

Hi Rajesh,

Thanks for the info I now know what it was used for and look forward to seeing yours.
Regards
Miguel

SRI LANKAN CEREMONIAL DAGGER
PIHA-KAETTA
31.5 CMS
18 TH CENTURY

Miguel · 16th May 2016, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

AFAIK these are not used as "weapons".

Hi David,
Thanks for your reply. I really don't know much about these knives but since I posted this thread I have been looking at old threads and it would appear that they were used for many things from scribes knives to fighting knives depending on their shape and size so I feel justified in referring to them as weapons.
Regards
Miguel

Miguel · 16th May 2016, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BANDOOK

SRI LANKAN CEREMONIAL DAGGER
PIHA-KAETTA
31.5 CMS
18 TH CENTURY

Hi Rajesh,

Avery nice piece, thanks for sharing it.
Regards
Miguel

David · 16th May 2016, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miguel

Thanks for your reply. I really don't know much about these knives but since I posted this thread I have been looking at old threads and it would appear that they were used for many things from scribes knives to fighting knives depending on their shape and size so I feel justified in referring to them as weapons.

Hi Miguel. I have never seen any supportable evidence that these were ever used as fighting knives. People "say" a lot of things, but i would love to see something that backs up such a claim. If you have some it would be great to see and add to our understanding of these extremely beautiful knives.

ariel · 16th May 2016, 09:56 PM

David,
I agree with you.
But they were not ceremonial either. The one shown by Bandook and labeled as such had been repeatedly and vigorously sharpened, to the point its middle part became visibly concave: a sign of heavy and prolonged use.

My guess, they were utility knives.

A. G. Maisey · 16th May 2016, 11:04 PM

I recall reading what appeared to be some very informed commentary on piha kaetta. I can't remember all the details, but it went something along the lines of these being made in workshops under the aegis of rulers, and that their primary function was as a 'badge of rank' knife.

They also come with a stylus for writing on lontar (palm leaves) and were an accoutrement of educated men.

I feel that what I half recall may have been in this Forum, but a quick google of piha kaetta seems to indicate that there is a site devoted to them hanging around somewhere. Maybe somebody with time to spare might care to dig for it.

Bob A · 16th May 2016, 11:15 PM

While I can't contribute any real information regarding the use of these knives, they are attractive examples of the metal-worker's art. The OP is the first time I've seen a sheath for one of these, and it too is an attractive piece of work. Given the general level of artisanal talent involved, I can easily see them as badge-of-rank items. What little I've read of them suggests the blade steel might not rise to the same level of quality as the rest of the implement, but that is merely hearsay (read-say?).

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 18th May 2016, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob A

While I can't contribute any real information regarding the use of these knives, they are attractive examples of the metal-worker's art. The OP is the first time I've seen a sheath for one of these, and it too is an attractive piece of work. Given the general level of artisanal talent involved, I can easily see them as badge-of-rank items. What little I've read of them suggests the blade steel might not rise to the same level of quality as the rest of the implement, but that is merely hearsay (read-say?).

The answer is in there somewhere ...I believe as part of the ceremonial and part the badge of office according to reports I have seen in such publications as seen at https://www.google.com/search?q=Piha...r-2aq1t1cfM%3A and particularly at michaelbackmans antiques pages.

See also http://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O4...fe-and-sheath/

See also http://www.michaelbackmanltd.com/3133.html

The question is..were these ever fighting knives... ?

A. G. Maisey · 18th May 2016, 09:30 AM

I reckon if I were a scribe in old Sri Lanka, and some careless person damaged the lontar leaves I'd just spent a couple of months writing on, I'd cut him into tiny pieces with whatever was close at hand. If that was my piha kaetta, so be it.

Ian · 18th May 2016, 05:48 PM

I have often wondered about a mainland SE Asian influence in these knives. The shape of the blade on PK knives is reminiscent of Burmese and Thai knives that date back many centuries, and the inlaid silver designs with curly-queues and a koftgari technique are similar to traditional Burmese designs. Certainly, trade existed between the Lankans and the Burmese, and probably the Thai as well. Who influenced whom is open to question.

As far as being a weapon or ceremonial object, there are certainly lavish examples for ostentatious wear, but the blades are often quite heavy, sharpened and definitely functional--they could certainly be used as a weapon if needed.

Regards,

Ian.

ariel · 18th May 2016, 06:56 PM

Ian,
My ( very superficial) understanding was that Sri Lanka was a relatively peaceful society comparing even with contemporaneous India. Drunken brawls aside, there were not many opportunities to brandish weapons there.

Am I incorrect?

Rick · 18th May 2016, 11:44 PM

There was a nice resource site at this addy,
http://www.pihakaetta.com/
But it has departed the server it seems.

Miguel · 21st May 2016, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Hi Miguel. I have never seen any supportable evidence that these were ever used as fighting knives. People "say" a lot of things, but i would love to see something that backs up such a claim. If you have some it would be great to see and add to our understanding of these extremely beautiful knives.

Hi David,

I have to agree with you re supportable evidence as there is not much supportable evidence available about these knives apart from where they came from , shapes, sizes and decoration. From my own resources only Stone and Elgood can be regarded as reliable and neither of these make mention of them being used as weapons, Despite this lack of evidence I just cannot believe that it wasn't as no matter where you search for knives from Sri Lanka or Ceylon it seems the only image and descriptions that you are presented with are of the knives under discussion, in fact it seems to be the only knife you can find and this is why believe it to be a weapon.
I must apologise for my delay in reply but my computer has packed up again and the system will not let me reply from my iPad so I have borrowed one while the repair shop diagnoses the fault(s).
Regards
Miguel

Miguel · 21st May 2016, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

There was a nice resource site at this addy,
http://www.pihakaetta.com/
But it has departed the server it seems.

Hi Rick,

Thanks but I found that out to. here are some interesting old threads particularly one from Dereck who posted an old paper on them but it never mentioned their use as a weapon either

Regards
Miguel

Ian · 21st May 2016, 08:01 PM

Ariel:

Sri Lanka has been a relatively peaceful place at various times in its history, although not so much in recent times with the activities of the Tamil Tiger separatists.

I don't know if the PK was used as a weapon, but it may have served that purpose.

Ian.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Ian,
My ( very superficial) understanding was that Sri Lanka was a relatively peaceful society comparing even with contemporaneous India. Drunken brawls aside, there were not many opportunities to brandish weapons there.

Am I incorrect?

ariel · 21st May 2016, 10:51 PM

Since we were discussing old daggers, I was referring to old times. Tamil Tigers were into AK-47: no elaborate metal work or ivory for them :-)))
And, having worked for a while in a Belarussian village, I can attest to the fact that kitchen or homemade knives as well as broken bottles were the most popular instruments of in vivo anatomical exercises. Firewood was a distant third.

Fond memories........

A. G. Maisey · 22nd May 2016, 01:13 AM

In Jawa, and I guess in most other parts of modern Indonesia, the most usual weapon now, and for perhaps 100 years into the past, has been the arit or sickle/reaping hook. This is perhaps because in rural areas no farmer is ever without one stuck into the back of his belt, or dangling from his wrist.

These societies have a plethora of knives and sharp pointy things to choose from, but the item that seems to be most popular is this common sickle.

A close second would be the bendo which is like a European pruning hook, and most houses have one.

I think it is probably pretty general that people use whatever is near at hand when necessity calls.

A number of police officers here in Australia have told me that what they fear most when required to attend a domestic dispute is the common kitchen knife, or in their own words "the Wiltshire", which is a longish kitchen knife kept in a sharpening cover, so it is always nice and sharp.

11th May 2016, 07:57 PM	#1
Miguel Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 584	Sri-Lankan (Ceylon) Knife Hello Everyone, I would be grateful for more information on this knife, I believe it is called a Piha Kaetta, that it is from Sri-Lanka and that is about all except for its dimensions which are overall length 10.375 ins, blade length 6 ins x 1.25 ins wide. The handle is intricately carved and decorated with brass and silver which extends partway down the blade which in marked contrast is rather heavy and plain. I would be grateful if you could tell me more about it such as use, age etc. Thanking you in anticipation. Regards Miguel Attached Images

12th May 2016, 12:32 PM	#2
BANDOOK Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: AUCKLAND,NEW ZEALAND Posts: 624	NICE KNIFE,MOSTLY USED TO CUT BEETLE NUT AND FOR CEREMONIAL PURPOSES,WILL POST MINE SOON REGARDS RAJESH

12th May 2016, 01:32 PM	#3
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,167	Very nice and decorative piece; would be glad to have it in my collection corrado26

12th May 2016, 11:40 PM	#4
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	IT LOOKS LIKE A NICE ONE IN GOOD SHAPE, ITS DIFFICULT TO TELL THE AGE ON THESE AND I DON'T KNOW IF THEY ARE STILL MAKING THEM. I SUSPECT IF THEY ARE STILL BEING MADE THE QUALITY WILL NOT BE AS GOOD. THERE ARE SEVERAL GOOD POSTS ON THESE IN THE FORUM ARCHIVES A SEARCH SHOULD BRING UP QUITE A BIT OF INFORMATION.

16th May 2016, 09:56 PM	#13
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	David, I agree with you. But they were not ceremonial either. The one shown by Bandook and labeled as such had been repeatedly and vigorously sharpened, to the point its middle part became visibly concave: a sign of heavy and prolonged use. My guess, they were utility knives.

16th May 2016, 11:04 PM	#14
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,697	I recall reading what appeared to be some very informed commentary on piha kaetta. I can't remember all the details, but it went something along the lines of these being made in workshops under the aegis of rulers, and that their primary function was as a 'badge of rank' knife. They also come with a stylus for writing on lontar (palm leaves) and were an accoutrement of educated men. I feel that what I half recall may have been in this Forum, but a quick google of piha kaetta seems to indicate that there is a site devoted to them hanging around somewhere. Maybe somebody with time to spare might care to dig for it.

16th May 2016, 11:15 PM	#15
Bob A Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 410	While I can't contribute any real information regarding the use of these knives, they are attractive examples of the metal-worker's art. The OP is the first time I've seen a sheath for one of these, and it too is an attractive piece of work. Given the general level of artisanal talent involved, I can easily see them as badge-of-rank items. What little I've read of them suggests the blade steel might not rise to the same level of quality as the rest of the implement, but that is merely hearsay (read-say?).

18th May 2016, 09:30 AM	#17
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,697	I reckon if I were a scribe in old Sri Lanka, and some careless person damaged the lontar leaves I'd just spent a couple of months writing on, I'd cut him into tiny pieces with whatever was close at hand. If that was my piha kaetta, so be it.

18th May 2016, 05:48 PM	#18
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,028	I have often wondered about a mainland SE Asian influence in these knives. The shape of the blade on PK knives is reminiscent of Burmese and Thai knives that date back many centuries, and the inlaid silver designs with curly-queues and a koftgari technique are similar to traditional Burmese designs. Certainly, trade existed between the Lankans and the Burmese, and probably the Thai as well. Who influenced whom is open to question. As far as being a weapon or ceremonial object, there are certainly lavish examples for ostentatious wear, but the blades are often quite heavy, sharpened and definitely functional--they could certainly be used as a weapon if needed. Regards, Ian.

18th May 2016, 06:56 PM	#19
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Ian, My ( very superficial) understanding was that Sri Lanka was a relatively peaceful society comparing even with contemporaneous India. Drunken brawls aside, there were not many opportunities to brandish weapons there. Am I incorrect?

18th May 2016, 11:44 PM	#20
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,262	There was a nice resource site at this addy, http://www.pihakaetta.com/ But it has departed the server it seems.

21st May 2016, 10:51 PM	#24
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Since we were discussing old daggers, I was referring to old times. Tamil Tigers were into AK-47: no elaborate metal work or ivory for them :-))) And, having worked for a while in a Belarussian village, I can attest to the fact that kitchen or homemade knives as well as broken bottles were the most popular instruments of in vivo anatomical exercises. Firewood was a distant third. Fond memories........

22nd May 2016, 01:13 AM	#25
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,697	In Jawa, and I guess in most other parts of modern Indonesia, the most usual weapon now, and for perhaps 100 years into the past, has been the arit or sickle/reaping hook. This is perhaps because in rural areas no farmer is ever without one stuck into the back of his belt, or dangling from his wrist. These societies have a plethora of knives and sharp pointy things to choose from, but the item that seems to be most popular is this common sickle. A close second would be the bendo which is like a European pruning hook, and most houses have one. I think it is probably pretty general that people use whatever is near at hand when necessity calls. A number of police officers here in Australia have told me that what they fear most when required to attend a domestic dispute is the common kitchen knife, or in their own words "the Wiltshire", which is a longish kitchen knife kept in a sharpening cover, so it is always nice and sharp.