Advice needed for my collection

Jens Nordlunde · 26th July 2020, 09:50 PM

David, I dont find you question morbid at all, as I find it is a question most collectors should ask themselves if they care about their collection - and why should they not care is they collect.
The question, however, must be answered by someone with knowledge to the US law - so although your question is very valid, I cant help you. BUt I do hope that others with more knowledge will help you.

David R · 26th July 2020, 11:38 PM

If you are lucky/unlucky enough to have some idea of a timeline (as my brother had) give some of the pieces to collector friends to remember you by. Sell the rest, and spend the money on making thoses last days better. My brother attended his own wake, was able to say farewell to his old friends, and I hope to do the same.
All too often, collectors die, and the family has no damn idea what to do with the stuff, and sell them for a pittance, or even throw them away!

kahnjar1 · 26th July 2020, 11:42 PM

Hi Dave,
A very timely subject, as we are all faced with this situation eventually!
I guess that firstly one needs to establish who the collection will pass to, and if that person holds the same interest as you do in terms of carrying on what you have started.
So... ensure that you have clear instructions included in your Will. If your beneficiary DOES NOT hold the same interest as you and may only view what you have as a source of $$$, then maybe you need to consider selling your items while you are still alive. Otherwise maybe instruct (in your Will) that your collection is sold thru a nominated reputable Auction House/Auctioneer, who specializes in Ethno (assumed) weapons.
I am sure that you do not want some unscrupulous person turning up and offering your wife/partner some amount way less than your collection is worth.
Stu

DaveA · 27th July 2020, 12:49 AM

Thank you everyone for the ideas.

We are in the midst of a raging pandemic and I am in a high risk group. Otherwise, my health is good and hope for many more years to enjoy my collection. So no rush! I like the idea of nominating one or more auction houses. I will probably gift some items from time to time before then. When my daughters were married I gave a keris to each groom as pusaka for the new family. (And also to perhaps spark interest!)

Dave A

Pinoy Blade Hunter · 27th July 2020, 12:57 AM

i think it would be a good idea to introduce your family to a trusted collector friend or friends so that the families may consult eachother about the collection when the time comes.

i plan on doing that also.

Duccio · 27th July 2020, 10:14 AM

I would like to modestly suggest another possibility: if you want the objects of your collection (at least some) not to be scattered and you like the idea that a wider audience can enjoy them, you can donate them to some museum that then show them off. A magnificent example is the imposing collection that Frederick Stibbert donated to the city of Florence in 1906: you can see on the web what it contains.

A. G. Maisey · 27th July 2020, 11:04 AM

I gave my Javanese son-in-law a keris when he married, but I do not have enough daughters to get rid of everything, so when this question about a succession plan comes up I invariably think of a life-long friend of mine who was also Australia's doyen of Eastern Edged weapon collectors.

For many years he would always say that he was going to take his collection with him, but when he finally experienced a medical event that put him into God's Waiting Room, he bequeathed his entire collection with the exception of one piece to his step-daughter, along with his records which included date of purchase and price paid. He also made recommendations for disposal which came down to public auction through the most experienced Australian auctioneer of antique edged weapons. His idea being that he wanted his collection to pass to other collectors.

I mentioned that he bequeathed everything to his step-daughter except for a single piece. He identified a single item as a gift to a friend. He did this before he died and entrusted his step-daughter to comply with his request. Regrettably he was unable to include his request in his will.

After his death the step-daughter and her husband refused to comply with the request of the departed gentleman, claiming that they had no knowledge of his request. This was an untruth, as they had mentioned the request to the person who was supposed to receive this gift prior to the death of my friend.

I think that this little tale drives home two very important things.

Firstly, whatever one might decide to do with any asset in his possession at time of death must be clearly stated in a properly constructed and enforceable will. Trust in a friend or relative can be badly placed where money or things of value are concerned.

Secondly, the thieving step-daughter and her husband will undoubtedly burn in Hell for Eternity, which is not a nice thing to remember about anybody, no matter how evil and twisted they might be.

kahnjar1 · 28th July 2020, 03:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

Hi Dave,
A very timely subject, as we are all faced with this situation eventually!
I guess that firstly one needs to establish who the collection will pass to, and if that person holds the same interest as you do in terms of carrying on what you have started.
So... ensure that you have clear instructions included in your Will. If your beneficiary DOES NOT hold the same interest as you and may only view what you have as a source of $$$, then maybe you need to consider selling your items while you are still alive. Otherwise maybe instruct (in your Will) that your collection is sold thru a nominated reputable Auction House/Auctioneer, who specializes in Ethno (assumed) weapons.
I am sure that you do not want some unscrupulous person turning up and offering your wife/partner some amount way less than your collection is worth.
Stu

Further to my earlier comments, there is another situation which COULD occur here, and that relates to an item (likely a firearm) for which one needs a special Licence/Permit to hold. The situation we have in New Zealand, and probably valid in other countries also, relates to the spouse/ beneficiary NOT possessing a Licence. On the death of the Licence holder, the particular weapon/s then technically becomes unregistered and can be seized by the Police. So.....either one's spouse needs to have a Licence also, OR arrangements need to be made for a suitable licenced person to take possession of the item/s and arrange the sale.
Nothing is easy is it!
Stu

motan · 28th July 2020, 11:44 AM

Hi,
I have already decided on this some time ago, but my solution fits me and the nature of my collection. Therefore, it can not be considered as advice for you.
I will leave my collection to an organization that deals with local heritage.
My collection has a very local character and practically 0 monetary value.

I know the risks - that it would end up in some dusty drawer or given to friends of the curator as present. Mismanagement is a very realistic possibility in my country, especially if I will give it to a Palestinian heritage institute, where it really belongs. But I will take my chances.
If it would have had significant value, I would have appointed a collector friend whom I trust to sell the collection for a percentage and give it to my family. They deserve that because they indirectly paid for it too.

thomas hauschild · 29th July 2020, 04:58 AM

One each for friends to remember me. All the rest for the solingen blademuseum nearby.

Thomas

Lee · 29th July 2020, 01:15 PM

It is intended as neither cynical nor humorous, but my candid, honest reply when asked about the ultimate disposition of my collection is "This is not my problem - I have enough problems. I will be dead, so this is my Executor's problem."

Having an accurate and accessible record of what everything is, what you have learned about it, what was paid for it and an occasionally updated estimate of current value will be very helpful to whoever does manage the dispersal. I merely have several incomplete failed starts at this and I have warned possible heirs that there may be a few things of significant value. I would not be averse to some of the better things ending up in a museum, right now the only directive in my will is that actual sales will be conducted in the United States. No offense intended to any nationality - and no restriction on who buys it and where they carry it home to - just the part of me that had to deal with the hassles and expenses of international shipping over several decades wanting to even things out.

There is one thing that a collector needs to prepare their heirs for and that is that the auctioneers and specialist dealers have a living to earn and the percent of the value that is theirs is not small. Those of you that have frequented these forums for a long time or have researched back in the archives will remember Lew. As an early death loomed over him, he began to explore this issue urgently and was horrified at the wholesale offers that he received. I promised him to disperse his collection and in the end probably recovered low retail value for his family (see http://www.vikingsword.com/lew/. I learned a lot about many of the pieces in the process and also about trading in them, and overall I enjoyed my time as a "limited instruction set specialist antiques dealer," but I also learned that dealers very often do earn what seems like an exorbitant markup (50% not being uncommon if they take on the risk up front) at first glance.

So leave an inventory and a list of a few reputable dealers and advise your heirs to solicit offers from about three parties and to let all know that there are other bidders.

Interested Party · 29th July 2020, 05:12 PM

When my granddad passed we bought our favorite pieces from my grandmother at a fair price to help with her home care. When I look at these pieces I have great memories of them.

What was left after the purchases didn't fare so well. Some pilfering et cetera, and a bit of squabbling among my aunts and uncles after my grandmothers passing culminating with a shady auction. A period of bad memories and the event kind of dissolved family bonds. Not a great way to honor such family orientated peoples' memory.

If keeping the collection together is not the paramount concern, but rather equitable distribution among interested parties I liked my grandfather's solution of letting everyone buy what they really wanted to remember him by before his death. After their death my grandparent's the original system functioned as a sports draft with each individual choosing an item in a set order. Simple, equitable, orderly. Not being a participant in the draft I was given the task of remembering what individual items were and values to help everyone get a fair price at a later date if they wanted. Monkey wrenches can be thrown into the systems by last minute changes though when dealing with people like Mr. Maisey's friend's step-daughter. Never under estimate them

All this brings to mind my own eventual demise as I work in a dangerous environment and could easily be a victim of my own stupidity. I have not updated my arrangements in a while and the old solution's are no longer applicable. This seems a task for next month, if I make it that far, with a bit of careful thought of who would enjoy the items the most in between. Most people don't seem to enjoy the craftmanship and cultural history of these kinds of items so they are a bit hard to dispose of.

ariel · 29th July 2020, 05:24 PM

My son is the only one expressing some interest in my collection. In my will I leave the entire collection to him, together with my notes, prices of acquisition and suggested values.
I intend to sell as much as possible before my "final journey" and am putting some stuff on e-bay from time to time. These days I am not selling anything because of pandemics: people are not buying much, they have better ways to spend their money:-(((

As to buying something new.... occasionally I cannot resist when I see something interesting:-)

26th July 2020, 11:42 PM	#3
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,730	Hi Dave, A very timely subject, as we are all faced with this situation eventually! I guess that firstly one needs to establish who the collection will pass to, and if that person holds the same interest as you do in terms of carrying on what you have started. So... ensure that you have clear instructions included in your Will. If your beneficiary DOES NOT hold the same interest as you and may only view what you have as a source of $$$, then maybe you need to consider selling your items while you are still alive. Otherwise maybe instruct (in your Will) that your collection is sold thru a nominated reputable Auction House/Auctioneer, who specializes in Ethno (assumed) weapons. I am sure that you do not want some unscrupulous person turning up and offering your wife/partner some amount way less than your collection is worth. Stu Last edited by kahnjar1; 27th July 2020 at 04:14 AM.

27th July 2020, 12:49 AM	#4
DaveA Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Wisconsin, USA Posts: 413	Disposition of collection Thank you everyone for the ideas. We are in the midst of a raging pandemic and I am in a high risk group. Otherwise, my health is good and hope for many more years to enjoy my collection. So no rush! I like the idea of nominating one or more auction houses. I will probably gift some items from time to time before then. When my daughters were married I gave a keris to each groom as pusaka for the new family. (And also to perhaps spark interest!) Dave A

26th July 2020, 09:50 PM	#1
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,713	David, I dont find you question morbid at all, as I find it is a question most collectors should ask themselves if they care about their collection - and why should they not care is they collect. The question, however, must be answered by someone with knowledge to the US law - so although your question is very valid, I cant help you. BUt I do hope that others with more knowledge will help you.

26th July 2020, 11:38 PM	#2
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,053	If you are lucky/unlucky enough to have some idea of a timeline (as my brother had) give some of the pieces to collector friends to remember you by. Sell the rest, and spend the money on making thoses last days better. My brother attended his own wake, was able to say farewell to his old friends, and I hope to do the same. All too often, collectors die, and the family has no damn idea what to do with the stuff, and sell them for a pittance, or even throw them away!

27th July 2020, 12:57 AM	#5
Pinoy Blade Hunter Member Join Date: May 2017 Posts: 62	i think it would be a good idea to introduce your family to a trusted collector friend or friends so that the families may consult eachother about the collection when the time comes. i plan on doing that also.

27th July 2020, 10:14 AM	#6
Duccio Member Join Date: May 2020 Location: Florence, Italy Posts: 64	I would like to modestly suggest another possibility: if you want the objects of your collection (at least some) not to be scattered and you like the idea that a wider audience can enjoy them, you can donate them to some museum that then show them off. A magnificent example is the imposing collection that Frederick Stibbert donated to the city of Florence in 1906: you can see on the web what it contains.

27th July 2020, 11:04 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,736	I gave my Javanese son-in-law a keris when he married, but I do not have enough daughters to get rid of everything, so when this question about a succession plan comes up I invariably think of a life-long friend of mine who was also Australia's doyen of Eastern Edged weapon collectors. For many years he would always say that he was going to take his collection with him, but when he finally experienced a medical event that put him into God's Waiting Room, he bequeathed his entire collection with the exception of one piece to his step-daughter, along with his records which included date of purchase and price paid. He also made recommendations for disposal which came down to public auction through the most experienced Australian auctioneer of antique edged weapons. His idea being that he wanted his collection to pass to other collectors. I mentioned that he bequeathed everything to his step-daughter except for a single piece. He identified a single item as a gift to a friend. He did this before he died and entrusted his step-daughter to comply with his request. Regrettably he was unable to include his request in his will. After his death the step-daughter and her husband refused to comply with the request of the departed gentleman, claiming that they had no knowledge of his request. This was an untruth, as they had mentioned the request to the person who was supposed to receive this gift prior to the death of my friend. I think that this little tale drives home two very important things. Firstly, whatever one might decide to do with any asset in his possession at time of death must be clearly stated in a properly constructed and enforceable will. Trust in a friend or relative can be badly placed where money or things of value are concerned. Secondly, the thieving step-daughter and her husband will undoubtedly burn in Hell for Eternity, which is not a nice thing to remember about anybody, no matter how evil and twisted they might be.

28th July 2020, 11:44 AM	#9
motan Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Jerusalem Posts: 274	Hi, I have already decided on this some time ago, but my solution fits me and the nature of my collection. Therefore, it can not be considered as advice for you. I will leave my collection to an organization that deals with local heritage. My collection has a very local character and practically 0 monetary value. I know the risks - that it would end up in some dusty drawer or given to friends of the curator as present. Mismanagement is a very realistic possibility in my country, especially if I will give it to a Palestinian heritage institute, where it really belongs. But I will take my chances. If it would have had significant value, I would have appointed a collector friend whom I trust to sell the collection for a percentage and give it to my family. They deserve that because they indirectly paid for it too.

29th July 2020, 04:58 AM	#10
thomas hauschild Member Join Date: May 2017 Location: Germany Posts: 139	One each for friends to remember me. All the rest for the solingen blademuseum nearby. Thomas

29th July 2020, 01:15 PM	#11
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 896	It is intended as neither cynical nor humorous, but my candid, honest reply when asked about the ultimate disposition of my collection is "This is not my problem - I have enough problems. I will be dead, so this is my Executor's problem." Having an accurate and accessible record of what everything is, what you have learned about it, what was paid for it and an occasionally updated estimate of current value will be very helpful to whoever does manage the dispersal. I merely have several incomplete failed starts at this and I have warned possible heirs that there may be a few things of significant value. I would not be averse to some of the better things ending up in a museum, right now the only directive in my will is that actual sales will be conducted in the United States. No offense intended to any nationality - and no restriction on who buys it and where they carry it home to - just the part of me that had to deal with the hassles and expenses of international shipping over several decades wanting to even things out. There is one thing that a collector needs to prepare their heirs for and that is that the auctioneers and specialist dealers have a living to earn and the percent of the value that is theirs is not small. Those of you that have frequented these forums for a long time or have researched back in the archives will remember Lew. As an early death loomed over him, he began to explore this issue urgently and was horrified at the wholesale offers that he received. I promised him to disperse his collection and in the end probably recovered low retail value for his family (see http://www.vikingsword.com/lew/. I learned a lot about many of the pieces in the process and also about trading in them, and overall I enjoyed my time as a "limited instruction set specialist antiques dealer," but I also learned that dealers very often do earn what seems like an exorbitant markup (50% not being uncommon if they take on the risk up front) at first glance. So leave an inventory and a list of a few reputable dealers and advise your heirs to solicit offers from about three parties and to let all know that there are other bidders.

29th July 2020, 05:12 PM	#12
Interested Party Member Join Date: Dec 2019 Location: Eastern Sierra Posts: 392	When my granddad passed we bought our favorite pieces from my grandmother at a fair price to help with her home care. When I look at these pieces I have great memories of them. What was left after the purchases didn't fare so well. Some pilfering et cetera, and a bit of squabbling among my aunts and uncles after my grandmothers passing culminating with a shady auction. A period of bad memories and the event kind of dissolved family bonds. Not a great way to honor such family orientated peoples' memory. If keeping the collection together is not the paramount concern, but rather equitable distribution among interested parties I liked my grandfather's solution of letting everyone buy what they really wanted to remember him by before his death. After their death my grandparent's the original system functioned as a sports draft with each individual choosing an item in a set order. Simple, equitable, orderly. Not being a participant in the draft I was given the task of remembering what individual items were and values to help everyone get a fair price at a later date if they wanted. Monkey wrenches can be thrown into the systems by last minute changes though when dealing with people like Mr. Maisey's friend's step-daughter. Never under estimate them All this brings to mind my own eventual demise as I work in a dangerous environment and could easily be a victim of my own stupidity. I have not updated my arrangements in a while and the old solution's are no longer applicable. This seems a task for next month, if I make it that far, with a bit of careful thought of who would enjoy the items the most in between. Most people don't seem to enjoy the craftmanship and cultural history of these kinds of items so they are a bit hard to dispose of.

29th July 2020, 05:24 PM	#13
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	My son is the only one expressing some interest in my collection. In my will I leave the entire collection to him, together with my notes, prices of acquisition and suggested values. I intend to sell as much as possible before my "final journey" and am putting some stuff on e-bay from time to time. These days I am not selling anything because of pandemics: people are not buying much, they have better ways to spend their money:-((( As to buying something new.... occasionally I cannot resist when I see something interesting:-)