A neat blunderbuss ... probably loaded

fernando · 4th July 2010, 05:51 PM

These are the first pictures.
The shortest blunderbuss i got; total length 61 cms (24").
The barrel, contary to most usualy seen (over here) was originaly made for a blunderbuss ... no cut offs and no muzzle swellings, as it all appears. Length 29 cms (11 1/2").
So amazingly the stock is longer than the barrel!
The conversion to percussion looks rather professional (arsenal ?), with brass filling on the emptied area, a sturdy hammer and a military chimney.
The lock plate inside is signed OTTERO, sounding Spanish; could either be the maker or the converter (?). This name puzzles me a bit, as i thought this gun was British; but that was just intuition.
OTHH there is a tiny mark on the plate face that looks likew a J under some symbol; the type of punction letter used by French inspectors.
So i am lost on what counts origin ... which drives me mad.
Suddenly i had the feeling to lurk inside the barrel, before i blew it, as always, to check if it is clean, and i discern some paper plug. I pick up a stick and compare lengths between outside and inside the barrel, and over an inch of space is occupied by something.
Could it be that this thing is loaded?
I have to see what has to be done about it ... and how.
Coments on either gun and load are welcome.
Fernando

.

fernando · 4th July 2010, 06:46 PM

Alright guys,
The possible load of this gun was a false alarm

.
I have just taken off the paper plug ... and nothing else was there.
I blew it and the air goes through.
The paper is part of some kind of receipt, issued by an old Portuguese bank, back in 1953.
So fine i won't have any troubles extracting the load from the barrel.
... and the little paper becomes collectable, attached to this blunderbuss.
In this case the gun may not be Portuguese, but has been around for a while

.
Fernando.

Philip · 5th July 2010, 07:35 PM

Congratulations, it's a good-looking piece but I can't understand why a hand-cannon aficionado like yourself is suddenly interested in such modern arms!

It would have been nice to have had this thing in hand last night during our Independence Day festivities, to fire a blank charge or two or even using a reduced load to propel a flare into the sky. Of course our town constabulary frowns hard on this but most of the little cities in the area had public fireworks displays going on almost simultaneously, so with all the tremendous aerial explosions, how could they have noticed one more loud report?

Regarding old guns being loaded, this is a lot more common than one would expect. I've had a few come into my possession, and have been told that one accidentally discharged once in the conservation workshop of the Metropolitan Museum of Art. Gun shops that cater to shooters of muzzle-loading guns sell rods with threaded ends that take various auger-screws and "worms" for extracting charges. A collector who doesn't have access to these suppliers can have a local mechanic make these. Steel rods about 6-7 mm diameter can be welded or brazed to a large coarse-threaded wood screw to make a ball-extractor. A T-shaped handle on the other end makes it easier to use. A disc-shaped section of wooden dowel just smaller than the bore size, drilled in the center for the rod, will help center the tool when boring into the bullet. For extracting cloth or fiber wads (as in shotguns or fowling pieces), a similar tool using a corkscrew bit is ideal.

fernando · 6th July 2010, 04:35 PM

Thank you dear Philip,
I can't help being simultaneously fond of various types of weapons; a sort of eclectic collector, to give it a pompous name

.
Collecting, for some like me, may imply in a rotation of the items; you gather them as you see them, love them while you have them, and one day you let them go, in favour of the ones you like more.
I know there are some who only gather what they have elected, and others who gather all they come across and keep everything.
I reckon i don't belong to these two groups because, on one hand i am a convict consumer and like to acquire the most varied things but, on the other, i don't have the space (volumetric and financial

) to maintain all gathered stock.
So, time allowing, i try and end up refining my inventory ... hand cannons having a previleged position

.
Thank you so much on the hints on how to extract loads.
In this specific case it sufised to make a hook with a strong paper clip, attach it to the tip of a shotgun cleaning kit rod that i had bought in a flea market and, at the second atempt, the paper 'wad' came out.
The impression that there was more than just the paper inside the barrel is because the breech base was rather thick.
Meantime i am still strugling to find the origin of this gun

.
Best
Fernando

kahnjar1 · 6th July 2010, 06:34 PM

Hi Fernando,
Nice Blunderbus. I notice that it has a belt hook. Quite a large piece to hang on ones belt I would have thought!
Stu

fernando · 6th July 2010, 06:48 PM

Hi Stu,
This is the shortest blunderbuss i got, as also one of the shortest you may see out there ... before you start consider them blunderbuss pistols.
I have 'longer' ones also with belt hooks. Well, belt hook is a mode of calling them, as indeed they were (also) hanging from baldrics, used across the chest and also hanging devices on horse saddles.
Fernando

Dmitry · 6th July 2010, 07:40 PM

Nice piece. Too bad it was "converso"ed. The stepped iron barrel looks to be 18th century. A coach gun?

Matchlock · 6th July 2010, 08:07 PM

Hi 'Nando,

Taken into account what I wrote in my current thread on earliest handgonnes concerning often firing shot out of them, they might even be called the 'primeval blunderbusses'.

Apart from that, I like your piece of course. Do not worry too much about its being converted to percussion; it is known that only the really well firing specimen were converted in the 19th century.

Best,
Michl

fernando · 8th July 2010, 04:58 PM

Thank you Dmitry

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmitry

Nice piece. Too bad it was "converso"ed. The stepped iron barrel looks to be 18th century. A coach gun?

Could well be a coach gun; a short range piece, in any case.

fernando · 8th July 2010, 05:05 PM

Thanks a lot you for input, Michl ... and for embellishing my thread with those great images of medieval blunderbusses

'Nando

M ELEY · 9th July 2010, 06:09 AM

Very nice piece, Fernando! I particularly love blunderbusses. Although not made of brass, it could still have seen naval use. Blunderbus were extremely popular ship-board for both naval actions and to 'discourage mutinies". The belt hook is a common attachment on naval firearms. An iron barrel could indicate "private purchase" for a merchantman or privateer...

fernando · 9th July 2010, 07:10 PM

Thank you Mark,
I usualy become extremely sad (read mad) for not being able to identify a specimen, and this is no exception

.
If this were a military weapon, it could be that the marks onthe lock plate were erased, at the time it became a private gun.
But you are right in that it must have been a private piece since the very beginning, reason why it only bears the lock maker name in the interior.
One of these days i will try and disassemble the barrel, to check whether there are some signs there.
Oh well, who was the owner; a stagecoach guard, a merchantman or a privateer ... the excitement is increasing

.
Fernando

4th July 2010, 05:51 PM	#1
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,642	A neat blunderbuss ... probably loaded These are the first pictures. The shortest blunderbuss i got; total length 61 cms (24"). The barrel, contary to most usualy seen (over here) was originaly made for a blunderbuss ... no cut offs and no muzzle swellings, as it all appears. Length 29 cms (11 1/2"). So amazingly the stock is longer than the barrel! The conversion to percussion looks rather professional (arsenal ?), with brass filling on the emptied area, a sturdy hammer and a military chimney. The lock plate inside is signed OTTERO, sounding Spanish; could either be the maker or the converter (?). This name puzzles me a bit, as i thought this gun was British; but that was just intuition. OTHH there is a tiny mark on the plate face that looks likew a J under some symbol; the type of punction letter used by French inspectors. So i am lost on what counts origin ... which drives me mad. Suddenly i had the feeling to lurk inside the barrel, before i blew it, as always, to check if it is clean, and i discern some paper plug. I pick up a stick and compare lengths between outside and inside the barrel, and over an inch of space is occupied by something. Could it be that this thing is loaded? I have to see what has to be done about it ... and how. Coments on either gun and load are welcome. Fernando . Attached Images

4th July 2010, 06:46 PM	#2
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,642	Alright guys, The possible load of this gun was a false alarm . I have just taken off the paper plug ... and nothing else was there. I blew it and the air goes through. The paper is part of some kind of receipt, issued by an old Portuguese bank, back in 1953. So fine i won't have any troubles extracting the load from the barrel. ... and the little paper becomes collectable, attached to this blunderbuss. In this case the gun may not be Portuguese, but has been around for a while . Fernando. Attached Images

6th July 2010, 08:07 PM	#8
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi 'Nando, Taken into account what I wrote in my current thread on earliest handgonnes concerning often firing shot out of them, they might even be called the 'primeval blunderbusses'. Apart from that, I like your piece of course. Do not worry too much about its being converted to percussion; it is known that only the really well firing specimen were converted in the 19th century. Best, Michl Attached Images

5th July 2010, 07:35 PM	#3
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	Congratulations, it's a good-looking piece but I can't understand why a hand-cannon aficionado like yourself is suddenly interested in such modern arms! It would have been nice to have had this thing in hand last night during our Independence Day festivities, to fire a blank charge or two or even using a reduced load to propel a flare into the sky. Of course our town constabulary frowns hard on this but most of the little cities in the area had public fireworks displays going on almost simultaneously, so with all the tremendous aerial explosions, how could they have noticed one more loud report? Regarding old guns being loaded, this is a lot more common than one would expect. I've had a few come into my possession, and have been told that one accidentally discharged once in the conservation workshop of the Metropolitan Museum of Art. Gun shops that cater to shooters of muzzle-loading guns sell rods with threaded ends that take various auger-screws and "worms" for extracting charges. A collector who doesn't have access to these suppliers can have a local mechanic make these. Steel rods about 6-7 mm diameter can be welded or brazed to a large coarse-threaded wood screw to make a ball-extractor. A T-shaped handle on the other end makes it easier to use. A disc-shaped section of wooden dowel just smaller than the bore size, drilled in the center for the rod, will help center the tool when boring into the bullet. For extracting cloth or fiber wads (as in shotguns or fowling pieces), a similar tool using a corkscrew bit is ideal.

6th July 2010, 04:35 PM	#4
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,642	Thank you dear Philip, I can't help being simultaneously fond of various types of weapons; a sort of eclectic collector, to give it a pompous name . Collecting, for some like me, may imply in a rotation of the items; you gather them as you see them, love them while you have them, and one day you let them go, in favour of the ones you like more. I know there are some who only gather what they have elected, and others who gather all they come across and keep everything. I reckon i don't belong to these two groups because, on one hand i am a convict consumer and like to acquire the most varied things but, on the other, i don't have the space (volumetric and financial ) to maintain all gathered stock. So, time allowing, i try and end up refining my inventory ... hand cannons having a previleged position . Thank you so much on the hints on how to extract loads. In this specific case it sufised to make a hook with a strong paper clip, attach it to the tip of a shotgun cleaning kit rod that i had bought in a flea market and, at the second atempt, the paper 'wad' came out. The impression that there was more than just the paper inside the barrel is because the breech base was rather thick. Meantime i am still strugling to find the origin of this gun . Best Fernando

6th July 2010, 06:34 PM	#5
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,729	Hi Fernando, Nice Blunderbus. I notice that it has a belt hook. Quite a large piece to hang on ones belt I would have thought! Stu

6th July 2010, 06:48 PM	#6
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,642	Hi Stu, This is the shortest blunderbuss i got, as also one of the shortest you may see out there ... before you start consider them blunderbuss pistols. I have 'longer' ones also with belt hooks. Well, belt hook is a mode of calling them, as indeed they were (also) hanging from baldrics, used across the chest and also hanging devices on horse saddles. Fernando

6th July 2010, 07:40 PM	#7
Dmitry Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 607	Nice piece. Too bad it was "converso"ed. The stepped iron barrel looks to be 18th century. A coach gun?

8th July 2010, 05:05 PM	#10
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,642	Thanks a lot you for input, Michl ... and for embellishing my thread with those great images of medieval blunderbusses 'Nando

9th July 2010, 06:09 AM	#11
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,066	Very nice piece, Fernando! I particularly love blunderbusses. Although not made of brass, it could still have seen naval use. Blunderbus were extremely popular ship-board for both naval actions and to 'discourage mutinies". The belt hook is a common attachment on naval firearms. An iron barrel could indicate "private purchase" for a merchantman or privateer...

9th July 2010, 07:10 PM	#12
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,642	Thank you Mark, I usualy become extremely sad (read mad) for not being able to identify a specimen, and this is no exception . If this were a military weapon, it could be that the marks onthe lock plate were erased, at the time it became a private gun. But you are right in that it must have been a private piece since the very beginning, reason why it only bears the lock maker name in the interior. One of these days i will try and disassemble the barrel, to check whether there are some signs there. Oh well, who was the owner; a stagecoach guard, a merchantman or a privateer ... the excitement is increasing . Fernando