Stamp on a Klewang

ruiter58 · 23rd September 2023, 11:20 PM

Hi David, thanks for your answer.

But I am not sure we need to look in Europe. As far as I know, the following European manufacturers made the Dutch Klewang:
Germany:
• P D Lűneschloss
• RMM (Rheinische Metallwaaren- und Maschinenfabriek )
• Alexander Coppel
• WKC (Weyersberg & Kirschbaum)
• Carl Kaiser & Co
• Aug & Alb. Schnitzler
• Carl Eickhorn
• E & F Hörster

Netherlands:
• Hembrug

None of these have the Hammer & Anvil maker mark and I could not find the maker mark in "German knife and sword makers" from Carter. I am not sure if it is allowed for me to add a foto as the klewang is for sale and it is not mine. I was under the impression that the klewang was post 1945 but that is based on no more than a feeling. Over the last 3-4 years I've seen 3 klewangs with this trademark being offered on Dutch market sites. All had very thin hilt baskets and did not seem to have had any rust protection.

asomotif · 24th September 2023, 12:04 AM

Hello Ron,

Maybe a bit to simplistic, but : PB = Paku Buwono ?

Best regards,
Willem

David · 24th September 2023, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asomotif

Hello Ron,

Maybe a bit to simplistic, but : PB = Paku Buwono ?

Best regards,
Willem

Yes, that came to my mind as well, though if that were the case i would think it would more likely be marked PBX like this example.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=22308

David · 24th September 2023, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruiter58

Hi David, thanks for your answer.

But I am not sure we need to look in Europe. As far as I know, the following European manufacturers made the Dutch Klewang:
Germany:
• P D Lűneschloss
• RMM (Rheinische Metallwaaren- und Maschinenfabriek )
• Alexander Coppel
• WKC (Weyersberg & Kirschbaum)
• Carl Kaiser & Co
• Aug & Alb. Schnitzler
• Carl Eickhorn
• E & F Hörster

Netherlands:
• Hembrug

None of these have the Hammer & Anvil maker mark and I could not find the maker mark in "German knife and sword makers" from Carter. I am not sure if it is allowed for me to add a foto as the klewang is for sale and it is not mine. I was under the impression that the klewang was post 1945 but that is based on no more than a feeling. Over the last 3-4 years I've seen 3 klewangs with this trademark being offered on Dutch market sites. All had very thin hilt baskets and did not seem to have had any rust protection.

My point was that this maker's mark is very unusual for blades made in Indonesia. In fact ANY maker's mark is unusual. But this hammer and anvil mark really has more of a Western look to it than anything i have ever seen on an Indonesian blade.
Some variation of this marker's mark or logo is very common with Western smiths though.

ruiter58 · 25th September 2023, 09:55 PM

Thanks Willem and David,

Sorry about the late reply but I was out or a few days.
I do remember an older thread now where the PBX was mentioned. I'm searching the internet and get a lot of hits on "Paku Buwono" and will dive into that. Dave, you made me think and indeed I don't know any Indonesian maker marks. (Apart from Tjikeroe inscriptions). I can post another photo of the klewang now as I was able to buy it. You can see the damaged basket and the weirdly thin sheath. I expect to have it in my hands next week so that I can weigh and measure it. Don't know why but at this moment I am still convinced it is post 1945. Kind regards, Ron

Ian · 26th September 2023, 04:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruiter58

...
I do remember an older thread now where the PBX was mentioned. I'm searching the internet and get a lot of hits on "Paku Buwono" and will dive into that. ...

That old thread is here http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=22308

ruiter58 · 27th September 2023, 01:28 AM

Hello everyone, thanks for thinking with me, suggesting directions and searches. I bought the klewang and today it was delivered at my daughters house in the Netherlands. (I live in the Czech Republic and all buys from Dutch auctions I have delivered at my daughters; I either pick it it up when we are in the Netherlands or they bring it along when they come over here). She was able to take some more pictures, take measures and weight. First of all, it is heavier than most of the other klewangs (964 grams) while the hilt basket is made up of only 1mm steel (Most other ones have around 1.7 mm thickness). The sheath is made of very thin leather and weighs only 64 grams! On this sheath there is a very interesting stamp (See picture) If the letter type used is "Times new Roman" Than the stamp says: " Pol Plg and on the next line Nr 390" If it is Dutch, it could be an abbreviation or "Politie Ploeg" in Dutch "plg" is very common for Ploeg. This would mean "Police Team" No idea if "Pol Plg" can lead to something else in another language. Please see the pictures, hope they make sense to someone. Kind regards, Ron

Amuk Murugul · 28th September 2023, 06:19 AM

Hullo ruiter58!

Try:
PB=Pabrik Besi(Steel Factory), hence the hammer&anvil
PolPlg=Polisi Palembang(Palembang Police)
Everything seems locally-made.

mvg,

kai · 28th September 2023, 08:01 AM

Thanks a lot AM!

During which period did they manufacture klewang?

Regards,
Kai

Gavin Nugent · 25th September 2023, 11:52 PM

It is indeed a very EU/US looking mark.

What does a native Lombok maker's mark actually look like?

For context, here is a ricasso photo from an example in my collection.

It is faithful to the KNIL Klewang in all dimensions, yet also carries native flair that can be seen at the base and other areas of the blade.

Whilst not a stamp, but is a mark, can such a thing even be considered a "makers" mark though, or is it symbolic of something else.

It is not an anvil, but it radiates lines though.

23rd September 2023, 11:20 PM	#1
ruiter58 Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Kytlice, Czech Republic Posts: 19	European Manufacturers Hi David, thanks for your answer. But I am not sure we need to look in Europe. As far as I know, the following European manufacturers made the Dutch Klewang: Germany: • P D Lűneschloss • RMM (Rheinische Metallwaaren- und Maschinenfabriek ) • Alexander Coppel • WKC (Weyersberg & Kirschbaum) • Carl Kaiser & Co • Aug & Alb. Schnitzler • Carl Eickhorn • E & F Hörster Netherlands: • Hembrug None of these have the Hammer & Anvil maker mark and I could not find the maker mark in "German knife and sword makers" from Carter. I am not sure if it is allowed for me to add a foto as the klewang is for sale and it is not mine. I was under the impression that the klewang was post 1945 but that is based on no more than a feeling. Over the last 3-4 years I've seen 3 klewangs with this trademark being offered on Dutch market sites. All had very thin hilt baskets and did not seem to have had any rust protection.

25th September 2023, 09:55 PM	#5
ruiter58 Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Kytlice, Czech Republic Posts: 19	Search continues Thanks Willem and David, Sorry about the late reply but I was out or a few days. I do remember an older thread now where the PBX was mentioned. I'm searching the internet and get a lot of hits on "Paku Buwono" and will dive into that. Dave, you made me think and indeed I don't know any Indonesian maker marks. (Apart from Tjikeroe inscriptions). I can post another photo of the klewang now as I was able to buy it. You can see the damaged basket and the weirdly thin sheath. I expect to have it in my hands next week so that I can weigh and measure it. Don't know why but at this moment I am still convinced it is post 1945. Kind regards, Ron Attached Images

27th September 2023, 01:28 AM	#7
ruiter58 Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Kytlice, Czech Republic Posts: 19	More details on the Klewang Hello everyone, thanks for thinking with me, suggesting directions and searches. I bought the klewang and today it was delivered at my daughters house in the Netherlands. (I live in the Czech Republic and all buys from Dutch auctions I have delivered at my daughters; I either pick it it up when we are in the Netherlands or they bring it along when they come over here). She was able to take some more pictures, take measures and weight. First of all, it is heavier than most of the other klewangs (964 grams) while the hilt basket is made up of only 1mm steel (Most other ones have around 1.7 mm thickness). The sheath is made of very thin leather and weighs only 64 grams! On this sheath there is a very interesting stamp (See picture) If the letter type used is "Times new Roman" Than the stamp says: " Pol Plg and on the next line Nr 390" If it is Dutch, it could be an abbreviation or "Politie Ploeg" in Dutch "plg" is very common for Ploeg. This would mean "Police Team" No idea if "Pol Plg" can lead to something else in another language. Please see the pictures, hope they make sense to someone. Kind regards, Ron Attached Images

25th September 2023, 11:52 PM	#10
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	It is indeed a very EU/US looking mark. What does a native Lombok maker's mark actually look like? For context, here is a ricasso photo from an example in my collection. It is faithful to the KNIL Klewang in all dimensions, yet also carries native flair that can be seen at the base and other areas of the blade. Whilst not a stamp, but is a mark, can such a thing even be considered a "makers" mark though, or is it symbolic of something else. It is not an anvil, but it radiates lines though. Attached Images

24th September 2023, 12:04 AM	#2
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,221	Hello Ron, Maybe a bit to simplistic, but : PB = Paku Buwono ? Best regards, Willem

28th September 2023, 06:19 AM	#8
Amuk Murugul Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Kaboejoetan Galoenggoeng Mélben Posts: 457	Hullo ruiter58! Try: PB=Pabrik Besi(Steel Factory), hence the hammer&anvil PolPlg=Polisi Palembang(Palembang Police) Everything seems locally-made. mvg,

28th September 2023, 08:01 AM	#9
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,221	Thanks a lot AM! During which period did they manufacture klewang? Regards, Kai