Day To Night

[Rick]

Before and after .
Thanks to a fellow forumite .

[Gustav]

Beautiful indeed.

The quality of this photo is also like a signature.

[Rick]

Credit goes to the stainer Gustav .
I'll thank you for him .

The camera is a little Fuji point and shoot .

Pamor ideas anyone ?
Should we even try ?

Uler Lulut ?

[Marcokeris]

Originally Posted by Rick

Credit goes to the stainer Gustav .
I'll thank you for him .

The camera is a little Fuji point and shoot .

Pamor ideas anyone ?
Should we even try ?

Uler Lulut ?

IMO uler lulut

[Rick]

I'm intrigued by the amount of forward 'lean' or angle this blade has when viewed .


Is it a bit extreme ?
Or no ?

[erikscollectables]

Very interesting blade.
What is your idea about origin?

I now understand that the 2nd photo is the correct form to study the blade.

A maduran blade from my collection has a very strong forward lean as well.
It was discussed by Alan just a week ago.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=10437

Regards, Erik

Originally Posted by Rick

I'm intrigued by the amount of forward 'lean' or angle this blade has when viewed .


Is it a bit extreme ?
Or no ?

[Tim Simmons]

Bright light city turning night into day, you can humm the rest.

[Rick]

Originally Posted by erikscollectables

Very interesting blade.
What is your idea about origin?

I now understand that the 2nd photo is the correct form to study the blade.

A maduran blade from my collection has a very strong forward lean as well.
It was discussed by Alan just a week ago.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=10437

Regards, Erik

Hi Erik, if you study the angle of forward lean (when viewing a keris properly) it should be imagined as a person inclining forward from the waist in respect . Too straight is less respect, too much angle is considered subservient .

I suspect mine is on the subservient side .

The harmonious (just right) angle is the one that is generally sought .

Origin ?
A Bali style polish .
Here's a shot from the top .




Rick

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by Rick

Hi Erik, if you study the angle of forward lean (when viewing a keris properly) it should be imagined as a person inclining forward from the waist in respect . Too straight is less respect, too much angle is considered subservient .

I suspect mine is on the subservient side .

The harmonious (just right) angle is the one that is generally sought .

Origin ?
A Bali style polish .
Here's a shot from the top .




Rick

Agree, uler lulut pamor. Yes, Bali style polish but it is still dubious for me whether to regard yours balinese or not.

About the "leaning angle", I've learnt from Pak Djeno (the late empu Djeno from Yogya -- I was interviewing him at his home in Jitar, Yogyakarta before Bentara Budaya Jakarta Keris Exhibition 1996) that it told something.

Pak Djeno had said, that "Ngarso Dalem" (as told by him, to mention his King of Yogyakarta, the late Hamengku Buwono IX) once commissioned two kerises and one tombak to him -- one of them was a keris with dhapur "jangkung mangkunagoro" with three luks.

On the "angle" of the keris, Pak Djeno said that "Ngarso Dalem" (literally means, "in front of him") wanted the leaning -- in between the King HB II or Sultan Sepuh, and King HB VII one of the richest HB which reigned in 1877-1921.

The King HB VII according to King HB IX -- as told by Pak Djeno -- was too leaning to the Dutch government. But the King HB II, was too "straight" against the Dutch and British ruler in the past. "Ngarso Dalem" the IX, according to Pak Djeno, wanted "in between of them"...

About Sultan Sepuh or King HB II (born 1750). Historically, this "Ngarso Dalem" had a very hard times in the past. You may imagine, that once he was "fired" or sacked from throne by the Dutch government in Java, and forcefully replaced by Pangeran Adipati Anom Hamengku Nagara and then "Prins Regent" Hamengku Buwono III in the year of 1811.

Then came Raffles government of British. King HB II came to throne again, but unfortunately only for a very short time, only six months -- from 28th of December 1811 until 28th of June 1812. Ngarso Dalem was fired again, this time by the British ruler, and even was exiled to the Island of Penang (Malay), and in 1816 was sent back to Batavia or Jakarta now, then on 1817 was exiled again to Ambon in the eastern part of the Archipelago...

But again, Sultan Sepuh the II was brought to Surabaya in 1826 from Ambon, and then came to throne again as King Hamengku Buwono II in Yogyakarta on 18th of August 1826. Because the crown prince at that time, the next King HB V or Sultan Menol was too young, still 6 years old... HB II became King of Yogyakarta again, beside the next King HB V as "Sultan Anom" or the Young Sultan... Only two years at his throne, King HB II then passed away on 2nd of January 1828.

Back to Pak Djeno. Unfortunately, Pak Djeno had not yet done his job for his King. Because King HB IX who commissioned keris and tombak -- had passed away. (King HB IX passed away on 1990). Fortunately to me, Pak Djeno gave me permission to take foto of the design of King HB IX's tombak that not yet done at all by Pak Djeno...

GANJAWULUNG

[A. G. Maisey]

I really enjoy your historical commentaries Pak Ganja.

One cannot fully appreciate the beauty of Javanese culture and art without having at least some understanding of the history of Jawa. Undoubtedly the history of the mighty Kingdom of Jogjakarta is one that deserves special attention.

When we consider the history of Jogjakarta we sometimes tend to forget that but for the intervention of the Dutch in a family quarrel, there would be no Sultanate of Jogjakarta, thus, by any reasonable measure, it could be considered that the rulers of Jogjakarta owed their position as Sultans of the new (1755) Sultanate of Jogjakarta to the Dutch. It never does pay to get involved in family quarrels, because what followed the Treaty of Giyanti and Dutch endorsement of the newly created ruler was the demonstration of gratitude for Dutch support in the form of concerted efforts by the Sultans of Jogjakarta to oust the Dutch from the whole of Jawa.I feel myself that the Dutch were to a degree hoist on their own petard:- they attempted to apply the dictum of divide and conquer, and for once their superior skills in manipulation and deception did not pay off.

Anyway, come 1811 and Jawa fell into British hands. The Sultan of Jogjakarta was no more kindly disposed towards the British than he had been towards the Dutch --- why should he be? The British were foriegn occupiers of Javanese soil, just as the Dutch had been, and as any self respecting local ruler would want, the Sultan wanted them gone.

Trouble was, Javanese experience prior to the British occupation of Jawa had been with the Dutch. This experience was not a whole lot of use when it came to dealing with the British, who did things in a slightly different way. A way that involved the annihilation of those who opposed them.

On the evening of the 17th June 1812 the Lieutenant Governor of Java, Tommy Raffles --- formally known as Thomas Stamford Raffles --- arrived in Jogjakarta.

As soon as Raffles arrived the Sultan commenced operations against the British occupying forces. A number of minor fights and skirmishes between the Sultan's forces and the British forces ensued, however, Raffles was anxious to avoid the spilling of blood if this were possible, and he tried to negotiate a settlement with the Sultan. The Sultan was not interested in any negotiated settlement of the matter.

Why should he be?

His Karaton was a strong and easily defended fortress, he had installed around one hundred cannon on the ramparts, a double row of cannon in defence of the main gate, and an uncounted number of minor pieces of ordinance. His regular troops numbered in excess of 17, 000 trained and well armed soldiers, and he was able to call upon in excess of 100,000 irregular troops who were located in the nearby neighbourhood.

The British forces numbered less than 1000 men.

I believe that any commander in a similar position of superiority would have behaved in pretty much the same way as the Sultan, who demanded the unconditional surrender of the British.

Unfortunately for the Sultan, this was his first experience with the British military. How could he be expected to understand that odds of more than seventeen to one was regarded by the British military mind as a slightly unfair advantage over the enemy?

Well, to cut a long story short, the British forces attacked the Karaton, slaughtered massive numbers of Javanese soldiers, captured the Sultan , and suffered losses of 23 men killed and 76 men wounded.

Reports of the aftermath of this action tell of piles of Javanese bodies lying in mounds under every gateway within the Karaton, and bodies draped over the ramparts and bastions in prodigious numbers.

It was a massacre.

The type of thing that we almost expect when we read of British military actions of this period of history.

It seems that like the Dutch, Raffles also could not resist becoming involved in family quarrels, because following the pacification of Jogjakarta he divided authority by the sponsorship of the subsidiary court of the Pakualamanan.

The British were not in Jawa for long.In 1816 the British, in accordance with a pre-existing promise, returned Jawa to the Dutch.

We all know that the victors write the history books. One such history book that gives some really fascinating reading is "The Conquest of Java" by Major William Thorn.

[Rick]

I thought we were dealing with an aspect of pawakan here ..

Is this angle socio-political in nature ?

[Tim Simmons]

How sweet to have the ashes, Sorry Alan but you asked for it.

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

When we consider the history of Jogjakarta we sometimes tend to forget that but for the intervention of the Dutch in a family quarrel, there would be no Sultanate of Jogjakarta, thus, by any reasonable measure, it could be considered that the rulers of Jogjakarta owed their position as Sultans of the new (1755) Sultanate of Jogjakarta to the Dutch. It never does pay to get involved in family quarrels, because what followed the Treaty of Giyanti and Dutch endorsement of the newly created ruler was the demonstration of gratitude for Dutch support in the form of concerted efforts by the Sultans of Jogjakarta to oust the Dutch from the whole of Jawa.I feel myself that the Dutch were to a degree hoist on their own petard:- they attempted to apply the dictum of divide and conquer, and for once their superior skills in manipulation and deception did not pay off.

Dear Alan,

I don’t think the past fact of Yogyakarta is as simple as that. And if you don’t mind, let me clarify this statement from different view. Let’s ‘listen’ to what Dr Soekanto – an Indonesian historian but got his doctorate degree in the Netherlands – had said in his book, “Sekitar Jogjakarta 1755-1825” published by Mahabharata Djakarta (1952) and also an Amsterdam publisher – for instance. IMHO, the division of Mataram and the Civil war in Java in mid 18th century to 19th century began with the Dutch policy of “divide et impera” or divide and rule…

About the cause of conflict -- it all began (according to Dr Soekanto) around 1745. Susuhunan (the attribute of this King of Mataram in Solo or Surakarta) Paku Buwana II announced to whoever able to ‘extinguish’ the “kraman” (rebellion) of Raden Mas Said and Martapura – will get Sukawati region, in the eastern part of Surakarta.

(Raden Mas Said was the son of Pangeran Adipati Mangkunagara – the eldest son of the late Amangkurat IV, king of Mataram (1719-1725). And Paku Buwana II was the 10th son of King Amangkurat IV).

Raden Mas Said rebelled against King Paku Buwana II and Oost-Indische Compagnie (the multi-national company of East India, headed by the Dutch), because PB II and the Dutch had expelled and exiled Adipati Mangkunagara – the eldest son of Amangkurat IV – to Ceylon, in order to be able to appoint PB II as King of Mataram, although he was not the eldest son, but the 10th son of Amangkurat IV.

The Compagnie had a commercial interest in getting the agricultural crops and products from Java, so they preferred to appoint PB II as King of Mataram, although PB II was only 16 years old. The exile of Mangkunagara the eldest son of Amangkurat, believed to be the result of a defamation by the PB II's entourage. Mangkunagara was slandered, acting dishonest to the young wife of PB II. Mangkunagara then was exiled to Ceylon, with the help of the Compagnie…

Extinguished the Rebellion

Pangeran Mangkubumi – the number 20th son of Amangkurat IV, was known as a brave warrior. He then defeated and extinguished the rebellion of Raden Mas Said and Martapura. But unfortunately, the young king of PB II denied the promise – to give Sukawati region as a reward for extinguishing the rebellion.

Pangeran Mangkubumi was very disappointed, and then made “kraman” (rebellion) and even joined with Raden Mas Said and Martapura, against the Dutch Compagnie and King PB II.

In the year of 1747, King PB II fell ill and made a treaty with the Compagnie to give all the sovereignity of Mataram to the Compagnie. The treaty said in javanese language (Dr Soekanto also print the original treaty in Javanese, with all the signatures), as “awit saking sangete gerah kawula” (because of my grave illness), “paparentahan Karaton Matawis punika sarta sawewengkonipun sadaya… kahaturaken dumateng Kumpeni…,” (the Governance of Karaton Mataram and all the sovereignity … offered to the Compagnie…) King PB II then died of his illness, in 1749. And replaced by King PB III, the 3rd son of PB II.

The rebellion was so vast, and Pangeran Mangkubumi conquered much of Mataram sovereignity in many parts of Java. Then, came the Salatiga treaty on 4th of November 1754. King PB III and the Dutch Compagnie surrendered half of Java – except the northern coast area and Madura – to Pangeran Mangkubumi.

And it happened, the division of Mataram by the next treaty of Gianti in 1755. Only between Pangeran Mangkubumi and the Compagnie – on behalf of Mataram Kingdom and PB III. Half of Mataram was in the hand of Pangeran Mangkubumi, except northern coast of Java and Madura. Then, Pangeran Mangkubumi established a new kingdom of Yogyakarta and became the first king of Yogyakarta, with the formal title of Sultan Hamengku Buwana I since 13rd of February 1755…

On Division of Mataram, pls see this too http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...=GIANTI+TREATY

Please forgive me, for wasting your time and space for this humble explanation…

GANJAWULUNG

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by Rick

I thought we were dealing with an aspect of pawakan here ..

Is this angle socio-political in nature ?

Dear Rick,
I think the "pawakan" had a special intention -- regarding the attitude of the owner. Or maybe 'socio-political in nature' according to your term if you consider too Pak Djeno's experience..

Anyway, I am very sorry Rick, to use your thread for other topic. I just mean it to clarify what Alan has said on Yogyakarta...

GANJAWULUNG

[Rick]

Thank you Ganjawulung .

[A. G. Maisey]

Yes Pak Ganja, of course what I wrote is a simplification, moreover, it is a simplification from the point of view of a British soldier who was involved in that action in Jogja in 1812.

I did not set out to give our readers here a history lesson, my objective was to give an easy to read gloss that put the body of the story without the details. I wanted to do this because I believe it is necessary to understand the less attractive parts of any society's history in order to fully appreciate the beauty of the more attractive aspects of the society. Far too often we glorify a society and a culture and we have the ludicrous spectacle of half educated people falling in love with that society, but really not knowing much about it. If we can fully understand both the positives and negatives of a society and culture, and still love it, that is true love.Much the same as true love between people.

I will have accomplished my overall objective if I can encourage just one person to involve him or herself in an ongoing and intensive study of Javanese culture, society and history. Any person who does this cannot fail to become enthralled by what they will learn.

I am sick to the guts of listening to people with little knowledge telling us how wonderful Javanese, or Balinese culture is, and having no true knowledge nor experience upon which to base their opinions.Either that, or being overtly nationalistic.

Do the study. Gain the experience. Then, knowing both the beauty and the pimples make the comments.

Pak Ganja, I have probably read all the same books as you, whenever you quote this author, or that author, if I check my library, I find that I have him on my shelves. I've been reading Javanese history since I was 14 years old, and I am well aware that there is always more than one way to look at any situation.

However, when we strip the details from the Jogja story, there can be no denying that my gloss is accurate.

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

I did not set out to give our readers here a history lesson, my objective was to give an easy to read gloss that put the body of the story without the details. I wanted to do this because I believe it is necessary to understand the less attractive parts of any society's history in order to fully appreciate the beauty of the more attractive aspects of the society. Far too often we glorify a society and a culture and we have the ludicrous spectacle of half educated people falling in love with that society, but really not knowing much about it. If we can fully understand both the positives and negatives of a society and culture, and still love it, that is true love.Much the same as true love between people.

Thanks a lot, Alan,
Me either, I just want to tell the reality that actually in the dark side of Javanese history in the past was -- King PB II "had given the whole Mataram souvereignity while he was in grave ill to the Dutch Compagnie" on 1747, and Mangkubumi -- the younger brother of PB II from different mother -- had struggled to get a half of it and he succeeded in 1755, from the hand of Verenigde Oost-Indische Compagnie (headed by the Dutch) which had given the full right by PB II to handle Mataram kingdom. And that is Yogyakarta now...

I have learned a lot from the fault of the javanese in the past

Thank you, Alan

GANJAWULUNG

[A. G. Maisey]

We can all learn a lot by looking at our own history with an objective eye.

The Dutch in Jawa were very clever people, and there can be no doubt that Javanese society and culture from the time of the Dutch entering Jawa has been influenced enormously by the actions and attitudes of the Dutch.

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by Rick

Before and after .
Thanks to a fellow forumite .

Before and after it is stained? Would you please tell me the process? Stained with Chinese warangan?

GANJAWULUNG

[Rick]

Ganjawulung, the chemical arsenic trioxide was used instead of realgar .

I think the rest of the process would be better explained by the person who stained the blade .

[ganjawulung]

Very soft finishing, not too contrast as arsenic-warangan staining. I think it is more suitable for such old blade -- not too contrast. But I'm still guessing on the blade, whether it might have ganja or not... An iras?

GANJAWULUNG

[Rick]

Yes, it is an Iras .
The blade is 15 3/4 inches long .
Pesi is 3 inches .
The Width at ganja is 3 inches also .
Note the top view in post #8 .

I'm impressed by the pamor control .

The blade also has a nice song .

[David]

Originally Posted by Rick

Ganjawulung, the chemical arsenic trioxide was used instead of realgar .

I think the rest of the process would be better explained by the person who stained the blade .

I am afraid i am the guilty party when it comes to the staining of this blade. Frankly i was a little disappointed by my results, but didn't have the time to have another go at it. I am glad Rick is satisfied for the moment at least.
Yes, this is done with lab grade arsenic trioxide. The application is with a soft toothbrush in a method specified elsewhere in this forum by Alan Maisey.

[Rick]

Originally Posted by David

I am afraid i am the guilty party when it comes to the staining of this blade. Frankly i was a little disappointed by my results, but didn't have the time to have another go at it. I am glad Rick is satisfied for the moment at least.

Ah Brother you did a very nice job .
With every one you get better .

I think I will be satisfied for quite some time to come .

I believe I will dress this old fellow in the near future .
Many thanks David !!

Rick

[David]

Originally Posted by Rick

Ah Brother you did a very nice job .
With every one you get better .

I think I will be satisfied for quite some time to come .

I believe I will dress this old fellow in the near future .
Many thanks David !!

Rick

I am no expert, but having had this blade in hand i think i would lean towards a Lombok origin. It is certainly a gonjo iras blade. I look foward to seeing it dressed.