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Old 7th April 2017, 11:40 PM   #1
thinreadline
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Default Mid 19th C breechloading rifle

I wonder if any members can help me with the identification of this unusual mid 19th C breechloader I have just acquired .
It seems to be 577 calibre , the rifling appears to be 3 groove , and oddly the bolt is on the left hand side . It has a bayonet lug which nearly accepts a P1856 yataghan bayonet but not quite , though the muzzle ring diameter is correct for the barrel . It has superficial similarities with the Carter Edwards rifle of the 1860s but the bolt handle is on the wrong side . I can find no markings other than 1234 on the steps of the ramp sight . Any help would be much appreciated
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Old 8th April 2017, 08:18 AM   #2
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I had a snider 1st pattern conversion whose muzzle looked v similar to the one on your rifle also .577 , not sure about rifling.
This was the conversion of the Enfield pattern 1853 3 band from mussel loading to cartridge, I am sure you know this already, just completing the post for knowledge

My musket could take either the socket bayonet around the sight or attach to the lug on the barrel as it looks your rifle could too.

The top of the ram rod also looks" Enfield"

Maybe a trial weapon on early bolt action.

I wonder why there is a chunk gone out of side of the cartridge insertion area. The snider conversions had something similar done to them to facilitate the hinged breach and extraction systems.

Interesting item all the same.
I see a price on the tag in one of the pictures, I would try and negotiate.

Regards

Ken
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Old 8th April 2017, 01:27 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kmaddock
I had a snider 1st pattern conversion whose muzzle looked v similar to the one on your rifle also .577 , not sure about rifling.
This was the conversion of the Enfield pattern 1853 3 band from mussel loading to cartridge, I am sure you know this already, just completing the post for knowledge

My musket could take either the socket bayonet around the sight or attach to the lug on the barrel as it looks your rifle could too.

The top of the ram rod also looks" Enfield"

Maybe a trial weapon on early bolt action.

I wonder why there is a chunk gone out of side of the cartridge insertion area. The snider conversions had something similar done to them to facilitate the hinged breach and extraction systems.

Interesting item all the same.
I see a price on the tag in one of the pictures, I would try and negotiate.

Regards

Ken


Yes I am sure it is some kind of trials rifle
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Old 26th April 2017, 08:45 AM   #4
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I agree that it has the hallmarks of a trials rifle, ungraduated rear sight, "Enfield" configuration where possible. Definitely aimed at British military, whether it dates to earlier or later trials is difficult to tell, probably earlier given the caliber. I have not come across one that fits this description in Ordnance Select Committee minutes of the period, however there was a plethora of submitted breech loading arms & actions that were brought forward & often mainly the name of the "inventor" is noted.
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Old 26th April 2017, 08:58 AM   #5
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I think this is a conversion specially made for a left handed man
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Old 26th April 2017, 10:07 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corrado26
I think this is a conversion specially made for a left handed man
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You may well be correct , but a conversion from what ?
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Old 26th April 2017, 10:08 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adrian
I agree that it has the hallmarks of a trials rifle, ungraduated rear sight, "Enfield" configuration where possible. Definitely aimed at British military, whether it dates to earlier or later trials is difficult to tell, probably earlier given the caliber. I have not come across one that fits this description in Ordnance Select Committee minutes of the period, however there was a plethora of submitted breech loading arms & actions that were brought forward & often mainly the name of the "inventor" is noted.


Yes I do agree ... I wish I could pin it down to a known model though !
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Old 26th April 2017, 02:38 PM   #8
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I do not belief that the left hand conversion is made for ordnance or was definitely aimed at British military use. All European ordnance guns or Rifles have been made for normal right hand use, so why should there be a series of left hand test guns?
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Old 26th April 2017, 07:27 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corrado26
I do not belief that the left hand conversion is made for ordnance or was definitely aimed at British military use. All European ordnance guns or Rifles have been made for normal right hand use, so why should there be a series of left hand test guns?
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yes good point , I must admit that I have never encountered any military issue guns that were left handed, though of course this does occur with sporting guns.
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Old 26th April 2017, 08:32 PM   #10
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Yes I do agree ... I wish I could pin it down to a known model though !


Surely someone in the HBSA will know, it would be worth seeing if you can get some exposure of your rifle there.
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Old 26th April 2017, 11:44 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adrian
Yes I do agree ... I wish I could pin it down to a known model though !


Surely someone in the HBSA will know, it would be worth seeing if you can get some exposure of your rifle there.


Very good suggestion , will try them , thanks
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Old 26th August 2017, 12:57 PM   #12
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Old thread, but fairly certain this is a rifle by the British makers/inventors, the Green Brothers, they patented a number of systems, and I think this is based on their provisional patent, no.1794 April 28. 1876.

"Breech actions, sliding breech-block; protecting from dust and rain. -- Relates to the breech-loading rifle described in Specification No.49 A.D.1871"


The cut out in the side of the barrel breech was to allow the bolt to lock firmly when pushed forward and closed.

Last edited by stenoyab : 26th August 2017 at 05:52 PM.
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