ANOTHER KUBUR PISTOL

BANDOOK · 6th October 2015, 03:58 AM

THIS KUBUR PISTOL FINALLY ARRIVED FROM THE U.K AFTER 3.5 MONTHS AFTER A LOT OF HEADACHES,3 COURIERS REFUSED TO SHIP TO NEW ZEALAND ,FINALLY AFTER PAYING ANOTHER 190 POUNDS APART FROM THE 90 POUNDS ALREADY PAID FOR SHIPPING EARLIER THIS FINALLY WAS SENT USING A AGENT WHO HAD THE DANGEROUS GOODS LICENCE.ITS A BIG PROBLEM TO IMPORT GUNS INTO NEW ZEALAND NOW DUE TO THIS PROBLEM.

THIS WAS LISTED AT AUCTION AS AN EARLY 19 TH CENTURY INDIAN FLINTLOCK PISTOL.WITH ALABORATELY DECORATED WHITE METAL 28 CM BARREL,WITH ENGRAVED LOCK,FULLY STOCKED WITH BRASS FURNITURE AND BONE[ASSUME IVORY],AND BRASS STUD DECORATION,BRASS POMMEL,COMPLETE WITH RAMROD
RICK AND KUBUR COULD TELL MORE ON THESE GUNS

REGARDS RAJESH

Tim Simmons · 6th October 2015, 08:05 AM

I know nothing of pistols. I just want to say what a ridiculous chain of avents and have sympathy for you.
Procedure has no common sense. Is an antique pistol like this dangerous goods? Could one actually fire it? Being hit by a garden spade, could be dangerous goods.

Is it possible to give more details of the story? If naming names is allowed.

kahnjar1 · 6th October 2015, 08:50 AM

Nice pistol Rajesh but I do not agree with your comments that it is a big problem to import guns into NZ.
The problem is NOT in NZ but is with the choice/method you chose for getting it here from its country of origin. Lets not lay the blame here. As you will be well aware, so long as you have the RIGHT DOCUMENTATION and FOLLOW THE RULES, almost any sort of gun can be imported here.
Stu

Kubur · 6th October 2015, 09:14 AM

Hi my friend,

Very nice pistol.
What I can say is that the stock and lock are French.
The barrel is decorated in the style of Tunis (including the inscriptions).
The butt is decorated with bone inlays also in the Tunisian style (stars).
Only the nails look like Moroccan decoration.
Conclusion, for me it's a so-called Mediterranean eastern flintlock.
Some people mix them with pistols from the Balkans and it's true that they share the same kind of lock and / or stock. Despite that people from the Balkans preferred to import Italian locks and barrels...
For your pistol I'm pretty sure that it's a Tunisian /Ottoman pistol.
But we have to wait for Rick's comments.
By the way, I got the same problems, but only for 3 weeks in Europe...

Bets wishes,
Kubur

Tim Simmons · 6th October 2015, 11:37 AM

The problems were probably in the UK.

kahnjar1 · 6th October 2015, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

The problems were probably in the UK.

I agree 100%

BANDOOK · 7th October 2015, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

Hi my friend,

Very nice pistol.
What I can say is that the stock and lock are French.
The barrel is decorated in the style of Tunis (including the inscriptions).
The butt is decorated with bone inlays also in the Tunisian style (stars).
Only the nails look like Moroccan decoration.
Conclusion, for me it's a so-called Mediterranean eastern flintlock.
Some people mix them with pistols from the Balkans and it's true that they share the same kind of lock and / or stock. Despite that people from the Balkans preferred to import Italian locks and barrels...
For your pistol I'm pretty sure that it's a Tunisian /Ottoman pistol.
But we have to wait for Rick's comments.
By the way, I got the same problems, but only for 3 weeks in Europe...

Bets wishes,
Kubur

THANKS KUBUR,AM HAPPY TO KNOW THE TUNISIAN CONNECTION AND INFLUENCE ,FOUND THE BONE INLAYS UNIQUE,NONE OF MY OTHER TURKISH/BALKAN PISTOLS HAD IT BUT AS THEY HAVE OTHER THINGS IN COMMON I ASSUMED ITS A KUBUR PISTOL OF THE OTTOMON EMPIRE,HOPE SOME ONE COULD TRANSLATE THE SCRIPT ON THE BARREL,MAY BE THE MAKERS NAME???MANY THANKS FOR YOUR COMMENTS

rickystl · 11th October 2015, 01:56 PM

Hi Rajesh.
I've been out of town for a week on business. First chance I've had to catch up here on the Forum.
Nice pistol. For me, this is a typical Ottoman horse pistol made at one of the many gun making centers in the Balkans. And made to replicate the early French style pistols, which seemed the most popular pattern to copy. While the lock could be Italian - made for export - I believe it is a locally made copy. One feature indicating this is the screw holding the frizzen to the pan arm is mounted INSIDE the lock versus outside via European style. The barrel engravings were usually done in a very generic fashion so as to appeal to a wide range of prospective customers. The bone inlays at the wrist are interesting, and may indicate a Moroccan or Tunisian influence as Kubur mentioned. Most of these wrist inlays are metal (brass, iron, white metal) and sometimes have a jewel or semi-precious stone. So the bone inlays are very neat, and less common on these pistols. And the white metal inlay on the barrel seems to be mostly all there. Again, nice example.

As others mention above, the likely shipping problem is the U.K. I've had only one gun shipped from the U.K. to the USA a 3-4 yers ago. And I learned the hard way similar to your situation. There are only about 3-4 shippers in the U.K. that are "licensed" to ship ANTIQUE, muzzle loading guns. (not replicas). Even though muzzle loading guns (antique or replica) are not even regulated in the USA, I still had to fill out a bunch of paperwork and collect the gun at my airport customs office. And they rape you on the fees and shipping costs. So beware.

Rick.

BANDOOK · 12th October 2015, 12:07 PM

GREETINGS RICK AND THANKS FOR THE TIME TO LET ME KNOW ABOUT MY PISTOL,AGREE WITH YOU ABOUT THE NEW GUN LAWS IN U.K.ITS GETTING DIFFICULT TO GET ARMS FROM THE BEST MARKETS OF ETHINOGRAPHIC WEAPONS,NICE TO KNOW MORE ABOUT MY PISTOL ,SO I LEAN TOWARDS MOROCCO OR TUNISIA FROM THE STYLE OF DECORATION MENTIONED NY YOU AD KUBUR, AS TUNISIA HAD ITALIAN AND FRENCH INFUENCES AND OCCUPATION,MANY THANKS RAJESH

6th October 2015, 03:58 AM	#1
BANDOOK Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: AUCKLAND,NEW ZEALAND Posts: 624	ANOTHER KUBUR PISTOL THIS KUBUR PISTOL FINALLY ARRIVED FROM THE U.K AFTER 3.5 MONTHS AFTER A LOT OF HEADACHES,3 COURIERS REFUSED TO SHIP TO NEW ZEALAND ,FINALLY AFTER PAYING ANOTHER 190 POUNDS APART FROM THE 90 POUNDS ALREADY PAID FOR SHIPPING EARLIER THIS FINALLY WAS SENT USING A AGENT WHO HAD THE DANGEROUS GOODS LICENCE.ITS A BIG PROBLEM TO IMPORT GUNS INTO NEW ZEALAND NOW DUE TO THIS PROBLEM. THIS WAS LISTED AT AUCTION AS AN EARLY 19 TH CENTURY INDIAN FLINTLOCK PISTOL.WITH ALABORATELY DECORATED WHITE METAL 28 CM BARREL,WITH ENGRAVED LOCK,FULLY STOCKED WITH BRASS FURNITURE AND BONE[ASSUME IVORY],AND BRASS STUD DECORATION,BRASS POMMEL,COMPLETE WITH RAMROD RICK AND KUBUR COULD TELL MORE ON THESE GUNS REGARDS RAJESH Attached Images

6th October 2015, 08:05 AM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	I know nothing of pistols. I just want to say what a ridiculous chain of avents and have sympathy for you. Procedure has no common sense. Is an antique pistol like this dangerous goods? Could one actually fire it? Being hit by a garden spade, could be dangerous goods. Is it possible to give more details of the story? If naming names is allowed. Last edited by Tim Simmons; 6th October 2015 at 11:36 AM.

6th October 2015, 08:50 AM	#3
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,728	Nice pistol Rajesh but I do not agree with your comments that it is a big problem to import guns into NZ. The problem is NOT in NZ but is with the choice/method you chose for getting it here from its country of origin. Lets not lay the blame here. As you will be well aware, so long as you have the RIGHT DOCUMENTATION and FOLLOW THE RULES, almost any sort of gun can be imported here. Stu

6th October 2015, 09:14 AM	#4
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Hi my friend, Very nice pistol. What I can say is that the stock and lock are French. The barrel is decorated in the style of Tunis (including the inscriptions). The butt is decorated with bone inlays also in the Tunisian style (stars). Only the nails look like Moroccan decoration. Conclusion, for me it's a so-called Mediterranean eastern flintlock. Some people mix them with pistols from the Balkans and it's true that they share the same kind of lock and / or stock. Despite that people from the Balkans preferred to import Italian locks and barrels... For your pistol I'm pretty sure that it's a Tunisian /Ottoman pistol. But we have to wait for Rick's comments. By the way, I got the same problems, but only for 3 weeks in Europe... Bets wishes, Kubur

6th October 2015, 11:37 AM	#5
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	The problems were probably in the UK.

11th October 2015, 01:56 PM	#8
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,621	Hi Rajesh. I've been out of town for a week on business. First chance I've had to catch up here on the Forum. Nice pistol. For me, this is a typical Ottoman horse pistol made at one of the many gun making centers in the Balkans. And made to replicate the early French style pistols, which seemed the most popular pattern to copy. While the lock could be Italian - made for export - I believe it is a locally made copy. One feature indicating this is the screw holding the frizzen to the pan arm is mounted INSIDE the lock versus outside via European style. The barrel engravings were usually done in a very generic fashion so as to appeal to a wide range of prospective customers. The bone inlays at the wrist are interesting, and may indicate a Moroccan or Tunisian influence as Kubur mentioned. Most of these wrist inlays are metal (brass, iron, white metal) and sometimes have a jewel or semi-precious stone. So the bone inlays are very neat, and less common on these pistols. And the white metal inlay on the barrel seems to be mostly all there. Again, nice example. As others mention above, the likely shipping problem is the U.K. I've had only one gun shipped from the U.K. to the USA a 3-4 yers ago. And I learned the hard way similar to your situation. There are only about 3-4 shippers in the U.K. that are "licensed" to ship ANTIQUE, muzzle loading guns. (not replicas). Even though muzzle loading guns (antique or replica) are not even regulated in the USA, I still had to fill out a bunch of paperwork and collect the gun at my airport customs office. And they rape you on the fees and shipping costs. So beware. Rick.

12th October 2015, 12:07 PM	#9
BANDOOK Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: AUCKLAND,NEW ZEALAND Posts: 624	GREETINGS RICK AND THANKS FOR THE TIME TO LET ME KNOW ABOUT MY PISTOL,AGREE WITH YOU ABOUT THE NEW GUN LAWS IN U.K.ITS GETTING DIFFICULT TO GET ARMS FROM THE BEST MARKETS OF ETHINOGRAPHIC WEAPONS,NICE TO KNOW MORE ABOUT MY PISTOL ,SO I LEAN TOWARDS MOROCCO OR TUNISIA FROM THE STYLE OF DECORATION MENTIONED NY YOU AD KUBUR, AS TUNISIA HAD ITALIAN AND FRENCH INFUENCES AND OCCUPATION,MANY THANKS RAJESH