ODD DAYAK PARMOR BLADE

VANDOO · 30th November 2013, 03:04 AM

THIS SOLD ON EBY A WHILE BACK AND PUZZELED ME. WHERE ARE THEY MAKEING PARMOR BLADES THESE DAYS AND IS IT DAYAK WORK OR SOME OF THE EMIGRATES FROM OTHER ISLANDS WHO STILL MAKE PARMOR SWORD BLADES. THE WOOD CARVING IS GOOD AND HAS DAYAK DESIGNS BUT SEEMS A BIT DIFFERENT AND THE BLADE IS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THAN THE NORMAL MANDAU BLADE. IS THIS BEING DONE IN INDONESIAN BORNEO BY A MIX OF DAYAK AND PEOPLE FROM OTHER INDONESIAN ISLANDS?

Battara · 30th November 2013, 01:14 PM

Well Barry, to me it looks like a total reproduction. However you may have a point and thus I would love to see what the others think.

Sajen · 30th November 2013, 02:53 PM

I have followed and bid as well. When I have seen the other pictures from the auction I doubt that this mandau was recent. Would like to read the comments of our Dayak experts.

Regards,

Detlef

VANDOO · 30th November 2013, 03:06 PM

THEY STILL HAVE BLACKSMITHS IN VARIOUS VILLAGES AND LONGHOUSES THRU OUT BORNEO TODAY. MANDAUS AND VARIOUS ITEMS ARE STILL MADE FOR LOCAL USE AS WELL AS FOR SALE. TRADERS OFTEN PASS THRU TO BUY LOCAL CRAFTS TO RESELL TO SHOPS IN THE CITIES NOTABLY KUCHING WHO SELL THEM TO TOURISTS. THESE SHOPS OFTEN HAVE MANDAUS AND ITEMS FROM LOTS OF DIFFERENT YEARS OF PRODUCTION AND DIFFERENT VILLAGES. IT MAKES IT VERY INTERESTING TO SEE THE VARIETY OF WORKMANSHIP AND DESIGNS BOTH OLD AND NEW THAT ARE AVAILABLE.
I CONSIDER THESE SWORDS SPEARS ECT. RECENT WORK RATHER THAN FAKES OR REPLICAS MANY ARE OBVIOUSLY TOURIST GRADE WITH DRAGONS AND MERMAIDS AND OTHER NON TRADITIONAL DESIGNS BUT OTHERS ARE CLOSER TO THE TRADITIONAL AND COULD FIND LOCAL USE. THIS BLADE IS NOT TRADITIONAL FOR BORNEO AS FAR AS I KNOW THUS MY QUESTION. I HAVE SEEN KERIS AND SPEARS WITH THE TEETH, HAIR AND STRANGE PAINTED DESIGNS THAT HAD CRUDE PARMOR BLADES BUT THE TOURIST MANDAU USUALLY HAD POORLY MADE THIN STEEL BLADES.
I AM NOT SURE HOW LONG THE HAIRY, TOOTHED PAINTED UP TOURIST MANDAU HAVE BEEN AROUND OR WHERE THEY ARE MADE FOR SURE BUT THINK THEY GO AT LEAST BACK TO THE 1970'S. I JUST WONDER IF IT IS NON-DAYAK PEOPLES MAKEING THEM OR A COMBINATION OF WORKMANSHIP. THE CARVING IS MUCH BETTER THAN USUAL ON THE SWORD BEING DISCUSSED BUT THE BLADE LOOKS LIKE SOMETHING CLOSER TO INDONESIAN THAN DAYAK.
BEFORE THE EBY. LINK IS GONE THE SWORD IS 21 INCHES LONG UNFORTUNATELY THAT IS ALL THE REVELANT INFORMATION. I WOULD HAVE BID HIGHER BUT I DIDN'T LIKE THE BLADE AND THOUGHT IT WAS RECENT WORK SO I JUST BID ON THE HANDLE AND SCABBARD AND LOST.

asomotif · 30th November 2013, 10:38 PM

I would love to see the details of the auction.
Was it long ago ? do you have the link to ebay ?

I see no reason why this would be a reproduction.
I don't even think it is a recent mandau.

Better pictures of the blade would have been nice, as it is indeed a unusual blade.

Best regards,
Willem

Maurice · 30th November 2013, 11:26 PM

I agree with Willem's statements fully!

The blade had been etched, which is a pity, as dayaks didn't etch their blades.
I would estimate it at the first half of the 20th century.
The scabbard however has a lovely carved "clip".

I'm not sure about the area. Yet

Maurice

Sajen · 1st December 2013, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asomotif

I would love to see the details of the auction.
Was it long ago ? do you have the link to ebay ?

I see no reason why this would be a reproduction.
I don't even think it is a recent mandau.

Better pictures of the blade would have been nice, as it is indeed a unusual blade.

Best regards,
Willem

Hello Willem,

here the link: http://www.ebay.com/itm/SWORD-Tribal...vip=true&rt=nc

Sadly I forget to bid higher, I think, the given winning bid was a bargain for a rather unusual mandau. Like you I would like to see better pictures from the blade.

Regards,

Detlef

Battara · 1st December 2013, 05:12 AM

On a semi-related note, I just want to thank you folks for up loading the pictures and not just posting the link. This way they will always be in the archives for future research.

CharlesS · 1st December 2013, 12:57 PM

The pics of the blade make it a little hard to comment on, but the fact that the hilt is carved wood rather than antler, and in great detail to boot, would indicate and older Mandau rather than a newer one wouldn't it???

Battara · 1st December 2013, 05:02 PM

I guess I was looking at the style of carving for my age thoughts - certainly not the same as what I know to be old examples.

Maurice · 1st December 2013, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlesS

The pics of the blade make it a little hard to comment on, but the fact that the hilt is carved wood rather than antler, and in great detail to boot, would indicate and older Mandau rather than a newer one wouldn't it???

Yes, the images of the blade are very bad, and therefore it's almost impossible to comment properly.
But the greenish colour around the brass dot I've seen several times on mandaus bought in Java. There they washed / etched the blade.
The brass will turn green because of that treatment! (Which I've seen on the image).

Recent mandaus can be carved from wood or antler. And I've seen some very attractive carvings on new handles. But it's the motifs and style that counts, and if there the patina.

Regards, Maurice

Sajen · 1st December 2013, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maurice

Yes, the images of the blade are very bad, and therefore it's almost impossible to comment properly.
But the greenish colour around the brass dot I've seen several times on mandaus bought in Java. There they washed / etched the blade.
The brass will turn green because of that treatment! (Which I've seen on the image).

Recent mandaus can be carved from wood or antler. And I've seen some very attractive carvings on new handles. But it's the motifs and style that counts, and if there the patina.

Regards, Maurice

Hello Maurice,

good guess! I have seen this as well and the greenish colour of the dots seem to cofirm your guess.

I think the carving of the handle and special the one from the belt clip at the scabbard are from good old quality.

Do you have already a guess from which area this mandau could coming?

Regards,

Detlef

Maurice · 2nd December 2013, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

I think the carving of the handle and special the one from the belt clip at the scabbard are from good old quality.

Do you have already a guess from which area this mandau could coming?

Regards,

Detlef

No, I'm not sure on this. I think this is a tricky one to determine the area.
If I would guess, I would say in or around the Ngadju area, or upper Barito area.
Anybody else an idea?

Regards,
Maurice

30th November 2013, 03:04 AM	#1
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	ODD DAYAK PARMOR BLADE THIS SOLD ON EBY A WHILE BACK AND PUZZELED ME. WHERE ARE THEY MAKEING PARMOR BLADES THESE DAYS AND IS IT DAYAK WORK OR SOME OF THE EMIGRATES FROM OTHER ISLANDS WHO STILL MAKE PARMOR SWORD BLADES. THE WOOD CARVING IS GOOD AND HAS DAYAK DESIGNS BUT SEEMS A BIT DIFFERENT AND THE BLADE IS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THAN THE NORMAL MANDAU BLADE. IS THIS BEING DONE IN INDONESIAN BORNEO BY A MIX OF DAYAK AND PEOPLE FROM OTHER INDONESIAN ISLANDS? Attached Images Last edited by VANDOO; 30th November 2013 at 03:31 AM.

30th November 2013, 02:53 PM	#3
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,481	I have followed and bid as well. When I have seen the other pictures from the auction I doubt that this mandau was recent. Would like to read the comments of our Dayak experts. Regards, Detlef Attached Images

30th November 2013, 03:06 PM	#4
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	THEY STILL HAVE BLACKSMITHS IN VARIOUS VILLAGES AND LONGHOUSES THRU OUT BORNEO TODAY. MANDAUS AND VARIOUS ITEMS ARE STILL MADE FOR LOCAL USE AS WELL AS FOR SALE. TRADERS OFTEN PASS THRU TO BUY LOCAL CRAFTS TO RESELL TO SHOPS IN THE CITIES NOTABLY KUCHING WHO SELL THEM TO TOURISTS. THESE SHOPS OFTEN HAVE MANDAUS AND ITEMS FROM LOTS OF DIFFERENT YEARS OF PRODUCTION AND DIFFERENT VILLAGES. IT MAKES IT VERY INTERESTING TO SEE THE VARIETY OF WORKMANSHIP AND DESIGNS BOTH OLD AND NEW THAT ARE AVAILABLE. I CONSIDER THESE SWORDS SPEARS ECT. RECENT WORK RATHER THAN FAKES OR REPLICAS MANY ARE OBVIOUSLY TOURIST GRADE WITH DRAGONS AND MERMAIDS AND OTHER NON TRADITIONAL DESIGNS BUT OTHERS ARE CLOSER TO THE TRADITIONAL AND COULD FIND LOCAL USE. THIS BLADE IS NOT TRADITIONAL FOR BORNEO AS FAR AS I KNOW THUS MY QUESTION. I HAVE SEEN KERIS AND SPEARS WITH THE TEETH, HAIR AND STRANGE PAINTED DESIGNS THAT HAD CRUDE PARMOR BLADES BUT THE TOURIST MANDAU USUALLY HAD POORLY MADE THIN STEEL BLADES. I AM NOT SURE HOW LONG THE HAIRY, TOOTHED PAINTED UP TOURIST MANDAU HAVE BEEN AROUND OR WHERE THEY ARE MADE FOR SURE BUT THINK THEY GO AT LEAST BACK TO THE 1970'S. I JUST WONDER IF IT IS NON-DAYAK PEOPLES MAKEING THEM OR A COMBINATION OF WORKMANSHIP. THE CARVING IS MUCH BETTER THAN USUAL ON THE SWORD BEING DISCUSSED BUT THE BLADE LOOKS LIKE SOMETHING CLOSER TO INDONESIAN THAN DAYAK. BEFORE THE EBY. LINK IS GONE THE SWORD IS 21 INCHES LONG UNFORTUNATELY THAT IS ALL THE REVELANT INFORMATION. I WOULD HAVE BID HIGHER BUT I DIDN'T LIKE THE BLADE AND THOUGHT IT WAS RECENT WORK SO I JUST BID ON THE HANDLE AND SCABBARD AND LOST. Last edited by VANDOO; 1st December 2013 at 01:51 AM.

30th November 2013, 01:14 PM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	Well Barry, to me it looks like a total reproduction. However you may have a point and thus I would love to see what the others think.

30th November 2013, 10:38 PM	#5
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,221	I would love to see the details of the auction. Was it long ago ? do you have the link to ebay ? I see no reason why this would be a reproduction. I don't even think it is a recent mandau. Better pictures of the blade would have been nice, as it is indeed a unusual blade. Best regards, Willem

30th November 2013, 11:26 PM	#6
Maurice Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,324	I agree with Willem's statements fully! The blade had been etched, which is a pity, as dayaks didn't etch their blades. I would estimate it at the first half of the 20th century. The scabbard however has a lovely carved "clip". I'm not sure about the area. Yet Maurice

1st December 2013, 05:12 AM	#8
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	On a semi-related note, I just want to thank you folks for up loading the pictures and not just posting the link. This way they will always be in the archives for future research.

1st December 2013, 12:57 PM	#9
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,855	The pics of the blade make it a little hard to comment on, but the fact that the hilt is carved wood rather than antler, and in great detail to boot, would indicate and older Mandau rather than a newer one wouldn't it???

1st December 2013, 05:02 PM	#10
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	I guess I was looking at the style of carving for my age thoughts - certainly not the same as what I know to be old examples.