Pair of Ottoman Pistols

rickystl · 25th May 2015, 05:25 PM

Hello all.
Well, not really a pair. But both pistols are typical Kubar pistols probably made at one or more of the many gun making centers in the Balkans, under contract with the Ottoman Empire. And, unless built as a pair, I've never seen any two exactly alike. Which is amazing considering these pistols were made by the thousands over a 100-125 year period.
Sometime during the turn of the 19th Century, these pistols took on many of the styling features of French pistols built during the first half of the 18th Century. Not really sure why this styling, other than the overall attractive look. I do know that the slightly slimmer grip combined with the large butt cap makes a very comfortable grip while firing these pistols. And it would be an assist while retrieving the pistol from holders on the saddle or a sash.
As decorated as this pistols are, they seem to be done in a somewhat "generic" fashion. Engravings, inlays, carvings, etc. don't seem to represent anything in particular. This may have been done so as to appeal to a broad range of prospective customers, regardless of ethnic or religious background. Of course, I'm just speculating. But it does seem to make sense.

Both of these pistols are in safe firing condition. One lock just required a small amout of tuning and interal cleaning. While the other took more serious surgery. The tumbler was poorly designed to begin with. So we made a new tumbler with the correct geometry and re-assembled and tested. Along the way, both had new steel liners in the barrels for safe shooting. It doesn't look like it from the muzzle photos, but both barrels are the same caliber .60. So the same size ball can be used for both. And they are much fun to shoot. Especially when you hold and fire from both hands!

Anyway, picture heavy, so hope you enjoy. And thanks for looking. Rick.

rickystl · 25th May 2015, 05:28 PM

Some more pics..........

rickystl · 25th May 2015, 05:29 PM

Still more......

rickystl · 25th May 2015, 05:45 PM

Here are close up pics showing the two types of "flase" ramrods encounted on these pistols. One shows the short piece of rod that just covers the groove of the stock. While the other just just shows an impression of a ramrod carved into the stock. As discussed on another Post, in this Region, it was preferred to load these pistols with a seperate rod called a Suma. Either suspended from the neck or tucked in a sash. But I believe it was simply a styling exercise to further accomodate the look of the European pistols.

Another interesting observation is that during this period, there seemed to be a preference for the French style of flintlock being used on the pistols, but retaining the Miquelet style lock for the long guns. Not always. But notice most of the Tufuk rifles you encounter today, and their continued use of the Miquelet. Not really sure why.
Rick.

rickystl · 25th May 2015, 05:55 PM

Just for fun, I had this double holser (the correct name escapes me at the moment) made to accomodate the pistols to the range. LOL Copied from originals, but without the decoration. Small pocket in the front for spare flints. And on the back is mounted an original (although plain) suma rod for loading.

The pistol holders are difficult to find by themselves. And the Dealers won't sell them seperatly from the pistols (can't say I blame them). I'm still looking for an original for a single pistol. But I'll keep looking. Rick.

Kubur · 25th May 2015, 07:48 PM

Hi Rick,
Beautiful pistols and your holster is really great!
I plan to make an holster too, but covered with a copy of Ottoman embrodery.
Best wishes,
Kubur (like the name of the holster

Ottoman flintlock kubur (holster pistols) and holster (kuburluk)

rickystl · 26th May 2015, 03:06 AM

Kuberluk!! Thank you !
Hi Kubur.
Yes, I agree. The Ottoman embroidery would look much better. But I can't seem to locate the right material/pattern I'm looking for. Nothing so far, seems to to have the look I want. The leathersmith said that once I locate the material I'm looking for, he can add it to the holster. So I'll keep looking. LOL!

The originals I've seen have the embroidery stiched on to the leather, along with silver thread. Let me know if you find some material that looks right.

Rick.

digenis · 27th May 2015, 04:08 PM

Thanks for posting. Great photos.

Kubur · 29th May 2015, 11:32 AM

Hi Rick,

I post few things that I would like for Christmas!

Best, Kubur

rickystl · 30th May 2015, 05:06 PM

Hi Kubur.
WOW!!! Talk about beautiful!! If those items do happen to come my way, I'll leave them for you in my Will.

LOL! My generosity only goes so far. LOL
Thanks for posting these beauties. I'm still wiping the drewl off my mouth.

Actually, the holders for a single pistol is more difficult to locate than the double holders. Thanks for posting.
Rick.

25th May 2015, 05:25 PM	#1
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,621	Pair of Ottoman Pistols Hello all. Well, not really a pair. But both pistols are typical Kubar pistols probably made at one or more of the many gun making centers in the Balkans, under contract with the Ottoman Empire. And, unless built as a pair, I've never seen any two exactly alike. Which is amazing considering these pistols were made by the thousands over a 100-125 year period. Sometime during the turn of the 19th Century, these pistols took on many of the styling features of French pistols built during the first half of the 18th Century. Not really sure why this styling, other than the overall attractive look. I do know that the slightly slimmer grip combined with the large butt cap makes a very comfortable grip while firing these pistols. And it would be an assist while retrieving the pistol from holders on the saddle or a sash. As decorated as this pistols are, they seem to be done in a somewhat "generic" fashion. Engravings, inlays, carvings, etc. don't seem to represent anything in particular. This may have been done so as to appeal to a broad range of prospective customers, regardless of ethnic or religious background. Of course, I'm just speculating. But it does seem to make sense. Both of these pistols are in safe firing condition. One lock just required a small amout of tuning and interal cleaning. While the other took more serious surgery. The tumbler was poorly designed to begin with. So we made a new tumbler with the correct geometry and re-assembled and tested. Along the way, both had new steel liners in the barrels for safe shooting. It doesn't look like it from the muzzle photos, but both barrels are the same caliber .60. So the same size ball can be used for both. And they are much fun to shoot. Especially when you hold and fire from both hands! Anyway, picture heavy, so hope you enjoy. And thanks for looking. Rick. Attached Images

25th May 2015, 05:28 PM	#2
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,621	Some more pics.......... Attached Images

25th May 2015, 05:29 PM	#3
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,621	Still more...... Attached Images

25th May 2015, 05:45 PM	#4
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,621	Here are close up pics showing the two types of "flase" ramrods encounted on these pistols. One shows the short piece of rod that just covers the groove of the stock. While the other just just shows an impression of a ramrod carved into the stock. As discussed on another Post, in this Region, it was preferred to load these pistols with a seperate rod called a Suma. Either suspended from the neck or tucked in a sash. But I believe it was simply a styling exercise to further accomodate the look of the European pistols. Another interesting observation is that during this period, there seemed to be a preference for the French style of flintlock being used on the pistols, but retaining the Miquelet style lock for the long guns. Not always. But notice most of the Tufuk rifles you encounter today, and their continued use of the Miquelet. Not really sure why. Rick. Attached Images

25th May 2015, 05:55 PM	#5
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,621	Just for fun, I had this double holser (the correct name escapes me at the moment) made to accomodate the pistols to the range. LOL Copied from originals, but without the decoration. Small pocket in the front for spare flints. And on the back is mounted an original (although plain) suma rod for loading. The pistol holders are difficult to find by themselves. And the Dealers won't sell them seperatly from the pistols (can't say I blame them). I'm still looking for an original for a single pistol. But I'll keep looking. Rick. Attached Images

25th May 2015, 07:48 PM	#6
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Hi Rick, Beautiful pistols and your holster is really great! I plan to make an holster too, but covered with a copy of Ottoman embrodery. Best wishes, Kubur (like the name of the holster Ottoman flintlock kubur (holster pistols) and holster (kuburluk)

26th May 2015, 03:06 AM	#7
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,621	Kuberluk!! Thank you ! Hi Kubur. Yes, I agree. The Ottoman embroidery would look much better. But I can't seem to locate the right material/pattern I'm looking for. Nothing so far, seems to to have the look I want. The leathersmith said that once I locate the material I'm looking for, he can add it to the holster. So I'll keep looking. LOL! The originals I've seen have the embroidery stiched on to the leather, along with silver thread. Let me know if you find some material that looks right. Rick.

27th May 2015, 04:08 PM	#8
digenis Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 48	Thanks for posting. Great photos.

29th May 2015, 11:32 AM	#9
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Hi Rick, I post few things that I would like for Christmas! Best, Kubur Attached Images

30th May 2015, 05:06 PM	#10
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,621	Hi Kubur. WOW!!! Talk about beautiful!! If those items do happen to come my way, I'll leave them for you in my Will. LOL! My generosity only goes so far. LOL Thanks for posting these beauties. I'm still wiping the drewl off my mouth. Actually, the holders for a single pistol is more difficult to locate than the double holders. Thanks for posting. Rick.