Bali keris advice and thoughts

SidJ · 15th December 2022, 07:50 PM

Hello fellow keris enthusiasts,
I acquired this Keris. It is described as Balinese 19th century. I would be grateful for your thoughts on this one please as the dhapur is not one I have encountered before. There is no scabbard. 53.3cm

David · 15th December 2022, 08:54 PM

Ooh, that's interesting. I'm not sure i have seen exactly this dhapur before either. In Javanese terminology it would fall into the Kebo/Mahesa group, but frankly i am uncertainly if such a designation has the same meanings in Bali as it does in Jawa. Perhaps somebody else knows.
The luk at the end is of course similar to damar murub in Javanese parlance, but again, i am not sure how such a feature is seen on Balinese blades.
I wouldn't necessarily argue with the 19th century attribution. And i have to say that i am really enjoying this blade. Seems like an unusual dhapur with nicely controlled pamor and form. Wouldn't mind it at all in my own collection.

A. G. Maisey · 15th December 2022, 09:44 PM

Balinese keris with this exaggerated curl from the gonjo were supposedly worn by priests & religious scholars in Bali. This example of Sid's is a fairly mild curl, compared with some i have seen.

The gonjo on the keris shown here is a replacement, it might be legitimate, that is, it might have been placed upon the keris when the owner of the keris rose in status.

However, during the 1980's & 1990's there was a very well known m'ranggi & dealer in keris who lived in Celuk, and he had had a number of keris made in Madura that were fitted with this style of gonjo. Some of the keris he had for sale were new creations, some were older keris that had been altered, all were keris of rare, unusual or inventive forms.

I visited this gentleman a number of times, usually just to look at what he had, I found him far too expensive to deal with, and around 1990, maybe 1988, maybe 1992 or thereabouts, he had a large number of keris like this hanging from the fascia of a pendopo in his courtyard.

Sid's posted example might be real, it might be something from Celuk of 30 years ago, I certainly cannot tell from the photos, and I might not be able to tell even if I had it in my hand.

The Old Pirate was a master of his trade.

Anthony G. · 16th December 2022, 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Ooh, that's interesting. I'm not sure i have seen exactly this dhapur before either. In Javanese terminology it would fall into the Kebo/Mahesa group, but frankly i am uncertainly if such a designation has the same meanings in Bali as it does in Jawa. Perhaps somebody else knows.
The luk at the end is of course similar to damar murub in Javanese parlance, but again, i am not sure how such a feature is seen on Balinese blades.
I wouldn't necessarily argue with the 19th century attribution. And i have to say that i am really enjoying this blade. Seems like an unusual dhapur with nicely controlled pamor and form. Wouldn't mind it at all in my own collection.

Maybe I am wrong but I could not understand the pamor color of this bilah, it does not seems to be like traditional old Balinese keris pamor. A close associate friend of mine told me usually Madura keris pamor is this kind of color tone.

Rick · 16th December 2022, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony G.

Maybe I am wrong but I could not understand the pamor color of this bilah, it does not seems to be like traditional old Balinese keris pamor. A close associate friend of mine told me usually Madura keris pamor is this kind of color tone.

Not to mention that the wilah has a coarse surface which I would not expect from a Bali or Lombok keris.
Yet the gonjo is of a smoother finish.

SidJ · 16th December 2022, 10:23 AM

Might be Lombok as I have one attributed to there that has a similar surface texture? If the intent was to deceive I dont know how the maker could have ignored the texture and pamor points as a reasonable novice would be aware of this. The smooth ganja and large size is a clear Bali feature.

A. G. Maisey · 16th December 2022, 10:51 AM

Sid, not everything is as cut & dried as we might like to believe.

This is a very unusual form of keris, no matter where it comes from.

The gonjo is a replacement.

Keris like this were produced to order for a Balinese dealer 30 & more years ago.

I do not know if this keris was constructed for somebody in a Balinese community or somebody in the collector community

Anything else that we might like to think or say about this keris is guesswork.

15th December 2022, 07:50 PM	#1
SidJ Member Join Date: Apr 2020 Posts: 174	Bali keris advice and thoughts Hello fellow keris enthusiasts, I acquired this Keris. It is described as Balinese 19th century. I would be grateful for your thoughts on this one please as the dhapur is not one I have encountered before. There is no scabbard. 53.3cm Attached Images

15th December 2022, 08:54 PM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,026	Ooh, that's interesting. I'm not sure i have seen exactly this dhapur before either. In Javanese terminology it would fall into the Kebo/Mahesa group, but frankly i am uncertainly if such a designation has the same meanings in Bali as it does in Jawa. Perhaps somebody else knows. The luk at the end is of course similar to damar murub in Javanese parlance, but again, i am not sure how such a feature is seen on Balinese blades. I wouldn't necessarily argue with the 19th century attribution. And i have to say that i am really enjoying this blade. Seems like an unusual dhapur with nicely controlled pamor and form. Wouldn't mind it at all in my own collection.

15th December 2022, 09:44 PM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,703	Balinese keris with this exaggerated curl from the gonjo were supposedly worn by priests & religious scholars in Bali. This example of Sid's is a fairly mild curl, compared with some i have seen. The gonjo on the keris shown here is a replacement, it might be legitimate, that is, it might have been placed upon the keris when the owner of the keris rose in status. However, during the 1980's & 1990's there was a very well known m'ranggi & dealer in keris who lived in Celuk, and he had had a number of keris made in Madura that were fitted with this style of gonjo. Some of the keris he had for sale were new creations, some were older keris that had been altered, all were keris of rare, unusual or inventive forms. I visited this gentleman a number of times, usually just to look at what he had, I found him far too expensive to deal with, and around 1990, maybe 1988, maybe 1992 or thereabouts, he had a large number of keris like this hanging from the fascia of a pendopo in his courtyard. Sid's posted example might be real, it might be something from Celuk of 30 years ago, I certainly cannot tell from the photos, and I might not be able to tell even if I had it in my hand. The Old Pirate was a master of his trade.

16th December 2022, 10:23 AM	#6
SidJ Member Join Date: Apr 2020 Posts: 174	Might be Lombok as I have one attributed to there that has a similar surface texture? If the intent was to deceive I dont know how the maker could have ignored the texture and pamor points as a reasonable novice would be aware of this. The smooth ganja and large size is a clear Bali feature.

16th December 2022, 10:51 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,703	Sid, not everything is as cut & dried as we might like to believe. This is a very unusual form of keris, no matter where it comes from. The gonjo is a replacement. Keris like this were produced to order for a Balinese dealer 30 & more years ago. I do not know if this keris was constructed for somebody in a Balinese community or somebody in the collector community Anything else that we might like to think or say about this keris is guesswork.