Dha ID request

DavidE · 22nd July 2006, 01:18 AM

Do any of you have ideas/info on where this dha is most likely from, and what its primary use was (for dress, ceremonial, combat, etc.)? I bought it in Vientianne and was told it was made around 1920 for a Lao sodier. Any thoughts on this? It's 32" long with a 12" handle. Thanks!

David

PUFF · 22nd July 2006, 07:23 AM

I 'm not a Lao 's weapon expert or collector. I do agree with you that sword could be made in 20th cent. IMHO: The sword 's not for household use. Some people keep a functional weapon for home defend (from animals and also bad guys). The blade 's not decorated enough to be ceremonial or dressing piece.

The sword seems to be custom made for that purpose. It 's my first time seeing such peening on the blade surface. Does anybody has a similar example?

DavidE · 22nd July 2006, 11:50 PM

Thanks PUFF,

You said "the sword seems to be custom made for that purpose". Do you mean for funcitonal home use, or possibly for a soldier of some sort?

I've looked at a good many dhas on the net, and haven't seen any quite like this one. Also, most seem to be from Burma or Thailand, not Laos. If anyone else has thoughts to share I'd appreciate it.

David

RhysMichael · 23rd July 2006, 12:33 AM

I've never seen this "peening" on dha either. And it is also not a ussual characteristic for them to have a narrowing with a ferrel at the base of the blade. On those I have seen where the blade enters the hilt it is the same size or larger than the hilt ( daam), and the same size as the mouth of the scabbard (faak). The burned areas around the scabbard remind me of the fire hardening done on escrima sticks. Definitely an interesting specimen. I look forward to seeing what the others say.

Ian · 23rd July 2006, 12:52 AM

I believe this sword has some "Montagnard" heritage, referring to the people of the uplands of Laos and neighboring Thailand, Vietnam and Cambodia. The features that strike me as being consistent with Montagnard work are the oddly segmented hilt and small ferrule, and the charring of the wood on the scabbard and hilt. I have seen each of these features on Montagnard dha before, but not altogether on a single piece. I agree with the feeling that this piece is not very old -- almost certainly 20th C.

Ian.

DavidE · 23rd July 2006, 03:14 AM

Hey guys,

I could be wrong about this, but the wood doesn't look to be "charred" nearly as much as it does in the picture. The difference in color appears to me to be the result of a person's grip on the sword and scabbard. The handle and scabbard are a very dark brown and a bit rough. Exactly where your hand would go on the handle though, the wood is smooth and much lighter. Maybe it was charred, and the "charring" was simply worn off by someone's hand.

I'm attaching two additional pictures of some details that may be of interest. The first is of some sort of symbols/characters on the scabbard, which also allows you to see the color variation. The second is of a "butt" or plate which looks to be nailed to the bottom of the handle.

David

RhysMichael · 24th July 2006, 12:49 AM

It is not charred to to point that any material comes off. But it is darkened by the flames. Here is a link showing an escrima stick this was done to

http://www.wle.com/wholesale/media/W185.jpg

PUFF · 24th July 2006, 02:24 AM

I do agree that the wooden parts were flame treated. Seems to be done by the engraver, to bring out his/her engraved pattern.

And I think the blade was custom made because this kind of peening/marking takke too much time to be a production blade. For me, the sword 's decoration suggested its personal/home defend purpose. The "ติ" inscription could be someone 's name, likely to be owner (please enable Thai encoding on your page).

DavidE · 24th July 2006, 04:00 PM

RhysMichael- Thanks for the link.

PUFF- Interesting. It does look like the parts of the handle/scabbard that were flame treated were the parts that have carving.

22nd July 2006, 01:18 AM	#1
DavidE Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 7	Dha ID request Do any of you have ideas/info on where this dha is most likely from, and what its primary use was (for dress, ceremonial, combat, etc.)? I bought it in Vientianne and was told it was made around 1920 for a Lao sodier. Any thoughts on this? It's 32" long with a 12" handle. Thanks! David Attached Images Last edited by David Erath; 22nd July 2006 at 11:51 PM.

23rd July 2006, 12:52 AM	#5
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,029	Maybe Montagnard I believe this sword has some "Montagnard" heritage, referring to the people of the uplands of Laos and neighboring Thailand, Vietnam and Cambodia. The features that strike me as being consistent with Montagnard work are the oddly segmented hilt and small ferrule, and the charring of the wood on the scabbard and hilt. I have seen each of these features on Montagnard dha before, but not altogether on a single piece. I agree with the feeling that this piece is not very old -- almost certainly 20th C. Ian.

23rd July 2006, 03:14 AM	#6
DavidE Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 7	Hey guys, I could be wrong about this, but the wood doesn't look to be "charred" nearly as much as it does in the picture. The difference in color appears to me to be the result of a person's grip on the sword and scabbard. The handle and scabbard are a very dark brown and a bit rough. Exactly where your hand would go on the handle though, the wood is smooth and much lighter. Maybe it was charred, and the "charring" was simply worn off by someone's hand. I'm attaching two additional pictures of some details that may be of interest. The first is of some sort of symbols/characters on the scabbard, which also allows you to see the color variation. The second is of a "butt" or plate which looks to be nailed to the bottom of the handle. David Attached Images

22nd July 2006, 07:23 AM	#2
PUFF Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 30 miles north of Bangkok, 20 miles south of Ayuthaya, Thailand Posts: 224	I 'm not a Lao 's weapon expert or collector. I do agree with you that sword could be made in 20th cent. IMHO: The sword 's not for household use. Some people keep a functional weapon for home defend (from animals and also bad guys). The blade 's not decorated enough to be ceremonial or dressing piece. The sword seems to be custom made for that purpose. It 's my first time seeing such peening on the blade surface. Does anybody has a similar example?

22nd July 2006, 11:50 PM	#3
DavidE Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 7	Thanks PUFF, You said "the sword seems to be custom made for that purpose". Do you mean for funcitonal home use, or possibly for a soldier of some sort? I've looked at a good many dhas on the net, and haven't seen any quite like this one. Also, most seem to be from Burma or Thailand, not Laos. If anyone else has thoughts to share I'd appreciate it. David

23rd July 2006, 12:33 AM	#4
RhysMichael Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Virginia Posts: 520	I've never seen this "peening" on dha either. And it is also not a ussual characteristic for them to have a narrowing with a ferrel at the base of the blade. On those I have seen where the blade enters the hilt it is the same size or larger than the hilt ( daam), and the same size as the mouth of the scabbard (faak). The burned areas around the scabbard remind me of the fire hardening done on escrima sticks. Definitely an interesting specimen. I look forward to seeing what the others say.

24th July 2006, 12:49 AM	#7
RhysMichael Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Virginia Posts: 520	It is not charred to to point that any material comes off. But it is darkened by the flames. Here is a link showing an escrima stick this was done to http://www.wle.com/wholesale/media/W185.jpg

24th July 2006, 02:24 AM	#8
PUFF Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 30 miles north of Bangkok, 20 miles south of Ayuthaya, Thailand Posts: 224	I do agree that the wooden parts were flame treated. Seems to be done by the engraver, to bring out his/her engraved pattern. And I think the blade was custom made because this kind of peening/marking takke too much time to be a production blade. For me, the sword 's decoration suggested its personal/home defend purpose. The "ติ" inscription could be someone 's name, likely to be owner (please enable Thai encoding on your page).

24th July 2006, 04:00 PM	#9
DavidE Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 7	RhysMichael- Thanks for the link. PUFF- Interesting. It does look like the parts of the handle/scabbard that were flame treated were the parts that have carving.